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PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 12:06 am 
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SteveSmith wrote:
Clay, you make a good point. If I drive the edge of the dish I could just use a standard motor. I might be able to build a skeleton frame to sit over the downdraft table when needed and not interfere with it's normal function ... hmmmmmmmmmm. I think I'll look at motors.


Steve, why buy a motor? I mount the dish on a lazy-susan bearing, then mount the bearing on plywood, then mount it on the drill press table. I use a roller blade wheel mounted on a shaft to turn it.
Image Image

Works well and speed is adjustable.

Bob



These users thanked the author Bob Shanklin for the post (total 5): ernie (Thu Apr 20, 2017 7:24 am) • pat macaluso (Wed Apr 19, 2017 2:51 pm) • Alex Kleon (Wed Apr 19, 2017 6:00 am) • SteveSmith (Wed Apr 19, 2017 5:40 am) • Clinchriver (Wed Apr 19, 2017 4:41 am)
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 7:23 am 
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I've also seen dishes powered with a 1/2 variable speed drill motor.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 7:31 am 
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Hi bob . could you post a pic with the roller blade assembly mounted in the drill press? also what size wheel to purchase ? length and width of shaft ?? .I want to build one ! .At my age it/s hard to drive a manual bus ?? thank you


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 1:37 pm 
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That's a pretty cool rig, Bob!
I like the simplicity and directness of the design. Low cost is a definite plus too.

Ernie,
You could probably use a forstner bit with rubber bands stretched around the sides of the bit in place of the roller blade assembly. The rubber bands should provide enough friction to turn the dish.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 1:54 pm 
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Some thing like this

https://www.zoro.com/3m-expanding-drum- ... fgodXwkFVg

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 2:13 pm 
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I do have a number of rubber sanding discs for the drill press
. I have a lazy susan in the bsmt. I will try it .thanks for the suggestion ken.I appreciate it!


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 4:24 pm 
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Bob Shanklin wrote:
SteveSmith wrote:
Clay, you make a good point. If I drive the edge of the dish I could just use a standard motor. I might be able to build a skeleton frame to sit over the downdraft table when needed and not interfere with it's normal function ... hmmmmmmmmmm. I think I'll look at motors.


Steve, why buy a motor? I mount the dish on a lazy-susan bearing, then mount the bearing on plywood, then mount it on the drill press table. I use a roller blade wheel mounted on a shaft to turn it.
Image Image

Works well and speed is adjustable.

Bob


This is brilliant! And so easy to put together. I think we need a new thread for "1001 Uses for a Drill Press....other than Drilling".

-Tony


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 9:16 pm 
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Ernie, here is a pic of the wheel on its shaft. The wheel is about 2.375", it was bigger but my son wore it down when he was a child. :lol: I removed the bearings and used a 3" 1/4 20 screw for the shaft. I mounted the shaft with a lock-nut to a piece of 3/4" ply that I cut out with my rosette cutter to fit tight in the center of the wheel, and epoxied it in.
Image


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 8:04 am 
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Thanks bob for the pic .Does the rubber wheel abrade the particleboard or mdf radius dish ? I thought maybe I would put a rubber coating against the rim of my radius dish sander., a Bicycle inner tube or some spray rubber adhesive ?. My drill press has 18 speeds and can go down to 220 rpm. I will try the rubber sander first and then the skateboard wheel idea.thanks again for posting the pic .It is much appreciated


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 9:31 am 
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ernie wrote:
Thanks bob for the pic .Does the rubber wheel abrade the particleboard or mdf radius dish ? I thought maybe I would put a rubber coating against the rim of my radius dish sander., a Bicycle inner tube or some spray rubber adhesive ?. My drill press has 18 speeds and can go down to 220 rpm. I will try the rubber sander first and then the skateboard wheel idea.thanks again for posting the pic .It is much appreciated


CA glue does a great job to harden mdf. It's great for making templates made of mdf more durable, so soaking the rim of the dish should do the trick if you are worried about wear.



These users thanked the author mountain whimsy for the post (total 2): ernie (Fri Apr 21, 2017 12:24 pm) • bcombs510 (Fri Apr 21, 2017 10:15 am)
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 12:36 pm 
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ernie wrote:
Thanks bob for the pic .Does the rubber wheel abrade the particleboard or mdf radius dish ?

No it doesn't abrade the dish or wheel, Ernie.

Bob



These users thanked the author Bob Shanklin for the post (total 2): ernie (Fri Apr 21, 2017 8:31 pm) • Clinchriver (Fri Apr 21, 2017 2:02 pm)
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 9:36 pm 
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I'm traveling so I can't check yet, but I think the old belt off my bandsaw will fit on the rim of my dish. I just got a great deal on a floor stand drill press and will be setting up the powered dish for my next build soon. I'll let you know how it works out.


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 22, 2017 6:52 am 
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For the folks that already have this turntable style working, do you use the radius dish during brace glueup as well? If so, how do you keep it steady? Do you take the lazy Susan bracket off of it somehow?


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 22, 2017 9:36 am 
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In the past I've profiled the rim with a block plane before driving the darn bus. Right now I'm trying come up with a way to profile a set of very curly Narra that doesn't like my block plane no matter how sharp I get it with an 8000 grit wet stone. I can take very, very shallow paper thin passes but that kind defeats the purpose of using a plane (speed). I'm interested to see how some of you may be dealing with this problem. I thought of building a dedicated mold with the taper front to back built in that I could run a Japanese flush cut saw along. Anyone have a better idea?


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 22, 2017 10:41 am 
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After the rims and blocks are glued up I mark the profile using the radius dishes then I cut close to the line with an oscillating saw. After the linings are in I clean up with a block plane then sand in rhe dish. If I couldnt plane I suppose I would go straight to sanding and thats where a motorized dish would be really useful.

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 22, 2017 12:18 pm 
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fingerstyle1978 wrote:
In the past I've profiled the rim with a block plane before driving the darn bus. Right now I'm trying come up with a way to profile a set of very curly Narra that doesn't like my block plane no matter how sharp I get it with an 8000 grit wet stone. I can take very, very shallow paper thin passes but that kind defeats the purpose of using a plane (speed). I'm interested to see how some of you may be dealing with this problem. I thought of building a dedicated mold with the taper front to back built in that I could run a Japanese flush cut saw along. Anyone have a better idea?

I do the same, try a higher angle on the cutting edge of the blade, 10 or 15 degrees extra, don't have to grind it a lot at all.

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 22, 2017 12:54 pm 
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Maybe it's a given in this thread but I assume most are doing this first? http://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10102&t=8117&hilit=side+profile

Poor man's CAD.
It was a revelation to me.
A little pattern routing and accurate locating during bending and the sides are essentially done.
cutting blocks at the back angle before gluing them in helps too.
Fogive me if these are assumed already.



These users thanked the author david farmer for the post: Clinchriver (Sat Apr 22, 2017 3:41 pm)
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 22, 2017 3:41 pm 
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david farmer wrote:
Maybe it's a given in this thread but I assume most are doing this first? http://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10102&t=8117&hilit=side+profile

Poor man's CAD.
It was a revelation to me.
A little pattern routing and accurate locating during bending and the sides are essentially done.
cutting blocks at the back angle before gluing them in helps too.
Fogive me if these are assumed already.


Great idea, I used poster board to make an accurate template.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 23, 2017 11:18 pm 
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No need to drive the bus if you make a flat top guitar. Or if the back is only curved front to back it is a different process.

I made some radiused rims and although they turned out looking nice, I prefer them flat. Except for the angle from mid upper bout to the neck on the top.

When I did make the radiused rim, I made my mold an inside style, like a violinmaker and radiused it. So imagine a guitar body made from MDF with cutouts for the neck and tail block. First I put the tail and neck block in the cutouts with some weak glue, Like a violin, then shaped them to their outside shape and flushed them top and back. Bend and glue the sides to the blocks which will be to the shape of the perimeter. Then using a block plain, I trimmed the sides to follow the mold radius. It was easy. Then I removed a layer from the top and glued kerfing followed by block plane trimming. Then I did the same with the back. I then took out the middle mold section and it collapses so I can remove it. The rim (garland) is radiused to a standard shape. It is a violinmaker thing.

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PostPosted: Wed May 03, 2017 8:14 pm 
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klooker wrote:
One thing you may want to look at is using a VFD (variable frequency drive, aka AC Drive) and a 3-phase motor. VFD's give you variable speed control of a 3-phase motor along with other cool features like soft starting & braking. You can usually find 3-phase motors much cheaper than single phase motors and they are a lot simpler, meaning there is a lot less that can go wrong with one.

This unit is nice because it allows you to run up to a 1HP motor with regular 115V household electricity.
Attachment:
FM50-101-C_main-1.jpg

http://www.factorymation.com/FM50-101-C

That company has also been very helpful with tech support when you go to set up the unit. I put one on a drill press with a potentiometer that allows me to to control the speed.

Kevin Looker


Hey Kevin,

I just got this unit in the mail today. I think I have it pretty well figured out. I'm not adding a switch or a potentiometer or anything like that so it should just be the 110V line in and the 220 out to the motor correct? I'm planning to use the inverter as the on/off switch and it will likely just run at 46 RPM's all the time. Is it really that simple or am I missing something? Also I figured I'd power it with 8 gauge wire since I have some laying around- any problem with using a larger wire?


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PostPosted: Wed May 03, 2017 9:42 pm 
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fingerstyle1978 wrote:

Hey Kevin,

I just got this unit in the mail today. I think I have it pretty well figured out. I'm not adding a switch or a potentiometer or anything like that so it should just be the 110V line in and the 220 out to the motor correct? I'm planning to use the inverter as the on/off switch and it will likely just run at 46 RPM's all the time. Is it really that simple or am I missing something? Also I figured I'd power it with 8 gauge wire since I have some laying around- any problem with using a larger wire?


Yes, it should work that way straight out of the box. Be sure to connect the ground wire too. I neglected to do so on my jointer. Oddly it was fine for a while then it would give you a mild electric shock when you touched it until I connected the ground.

The gauge of the wire shouldn't matter as long as you can securely connect it to the terminals.

I'm not sure how the startup & slowdown speeds are set by default - you can make is "soft start" where it slowly ramps up to speed. You can also adjust the slow down speed where it will apply braking. You can't go too crazy with the braking though because it has to be able to dissipate the energy. If the manual is too cryptic, call them. They've always been very helpful to me in the past.

Kevin Looker



These users thanked the author klooker for the post: fingerstyle1978 (Wed May 03, 2017 9:54 pm)
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PostPosted: Fri May 05, 2017 8:45 am 
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Not sure where I got the idea, but last one I did I stuck a piece of masking tape on the side of a guitar similar to the one I was building and every 2 inches down the side I marked a width. I removed the tape and stuck it to my still-flat side and marked and cut the profile on it. I assumed the top edge was still flat even though it wasn't quite. After bending and finishing the rim, it needed about 3 minutes of hand bus driving.

Ed


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PostPosted: Sat May 06, 2017 12:34 am 
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klooker wrote:
fingerstyle1978 wrote:

Hey Kevin,

I just got this unit in the mail today. I think I have it pretty well figured out. I'm not adding a switch or a potentiometer or anything like that so it should just be the 110V line in and the 220 out to the motor correct? I'm planning to use the inverter as the on/off switch and it will likely just run at 46 RPM's all the time. Is it really that simple or am I missing something? Also I figured I'd power it with 8 gauge wire since I have some laying around- any problem with using a larger wire?


Yes, it should work that way straight out of the box. Be sure to connect the ground wire too. I neglected to do so on my jointer. Oddly it was fine for a while then it would give you a mild electric shock when you touched it until I connected the ground.

The gauge of the wire shouldn't matter as long as you can securely connect it to the terminals.

I'm not sure how the startup & slowdown speeds are set by default - you can make is "soft start" where it slowly ramps up to speed. You can also adjust the slow down speed where it will apply braking. You can't go too crazy with the braking though because it has to be able to dissipate the energy. If the manual is too cryptic, call them. They've always been very helpful to me in the past.

Kevin Looker


I got everything wired up and tested it and it worked fine. Then I built the jig and mounted it on the wall. Turned it on after re-checking connections and it powered up fine. I turned it in though without the disk on it to test again and it killed every breaker on the circuit. Checked the wiring again and it all seems correct. I guess it fried the breaker? Oddly the breaker didn't trip but all the receptacles on the breaker are down. When I turned it off last time the power was at full. I was under the impression that it only drew 4 amps and that it wouldn't be problem. I guess I'll replace the breaker and try starting from a slower speed and ramping up?


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PostPosted: Sat May 06, 2017 12:42 am 
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Turns out that a gfci outlet trips and kills the circuit every time that I turn it on.


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PostPosted: Sat May 06, 2017 1:04 am 
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Turns out that a gfci outlet trips and kills the circuit every time that I turn it on. Required to a dedicated circuit and it works like a charm. Pardon my freak out. Hope it helps someone else.

Love the jig. I mounted it on the wall and burned a bunch of shyzer plywood to make its footprint. That space is now much better utilized.


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