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 Post subject: Forgotten Shop Math
PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2019 6:38 am 
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Koa
Koa

Joined: Sat Jan 19, 2013 7:33 am
Posts: 1367
First name: Willard
Last Name: Guthrie
City: Cumberland
State: Maryland 21502
Zip/Postal Code: 21502
Country: United State
Focus: Repair
Status: Semi-pro
If slower equals smoother (fewer mistakes; less cleanup work to do), and
smoother equals faster (less time spent fixing/cleaning up), then by the Transitive Property of Equality as applied to the region of the shop housing my repair bench, slower equals faster.

And that is my excuse for taking an hour and a half on a 30 minute job. wow7-eyes

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 Post subject: Re: Forgotten Shop Math
PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2019 6:57 am 
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Brazilian Rosewood
Brazilian Rosewood

Joined: Sun Mar 30, 2008 8:20 am
Posts: 3576
Woodie,
The corollary is that it is always a 30 minute job to the person who is not doing it.
Einstein postulated that as you approach the speed of light time slows down, so you must have been working really fast to take an hour and a half on a 30 minute job. bliss



These users thanked the author Clay S. for the post: Woodie G (Tue May 28, 2019 7:15 am)
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 Post subject: Re: Forgotten Shop Math
PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2019 7:07 am 
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Joined: Wed Oct 08, 2008 11:36 am
Posts: 5697
Location: Southeast US
City: Lenoir City
State: TN
Zip/Postal Code: 37772
Country: US
Focus: Repair
Slow is fast, really! By slow I mean not rushing.

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Steve Smith
"Music is what feelings sound like"



These users thanked the author SteveSmith for the post: Woodie G (Tue May 28, 2019 7:14 am)
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 Post subject: Re: Forgotten Shop Math
PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2019 7:14 am 
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Koa
Koa

Joined: Sat Jan 19, 2013 7:33 am
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First name: Willard
Last Name: Guthrie
City: Cumberland
State: Maryland 21502
Zip/Postal Code: 21502
Country: United State
Focus: Repair
Status: Semi-pro
...and this is why little Sally hates math class. eek

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Watch what people are cynical about, and one can often discover what they lack.
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 Post subject: Re: Forgotten Shop Math
PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2019 8:12 am 
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Cocobolo
Cocobolo

Joined: Mon Feb 13, 2012 8:49 pm
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First name: peter
Last Name: havriluk
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Country: usa
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
I can't tell how much I've speeded up jobs by shutting down the bench at ten p.m. Rework and undoing and doing-over eat up a lot of time better spent doing something else and at least getting some progress on the 'something else'.

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 Post subject: Re: Forgotten Shop Math
PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2019 9:06 am 
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Measure once, cuss twice.

My going fast doesn't always result in a mistake, but it increases the risk of one, and once it happens (eventually, it happens), I feel like a dang fool. And then I have to undo the mistake and do it right the second time (which always takes far longer), or start over with a fresh part. So, yeah, going slower and thereby minimizing mistakes is usually more efficient, overall.

However, I realize that I would have harder choices to make about how much time to spend on things if I were trying to do this for money.


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 Post subject: Re: Forgotten Shop Math
PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2019 9:09 am 
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Brazilian Rosewood
Brazilian Rosewood

Joined: Tue May 13, 2008 10:44 am
Posts: 4210
Location: Virginia
Slow and steady wins the race.


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 Post subject: Re: Forgotten Shop Math
PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2019 12:15 pm 
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And I thought it was only me!

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 Post subject: Re: Forgotten Shop Math
PostPosted: Tue May 28, 2019 12:25 pm 
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Woodie G wrote:
If slower equals smoother (fewer mistakes; less cleanup work to do), and
smoother equals faster (less time spent fixing/cleaning up), then by the Transitive Property of Equality as applied to the region of the shop housing my repair bench, slower equals faster.

And that is my excuse for taking an hour and a half on a 30 minute job. wow7-eyes



Great , Now common core is in Lutherie !! [headinwall] laughing6-hehe laughing6-hehe laughing6-hehe

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 Post subject: Re: Forgotten Shop Math
PostPosted: Wed May 29, 2019 7:14 pm 
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First name: Ed
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And that is my excuse for taking an hour and a half on a 30 minute job.


I just say "it's all about the process". No one can refute me and there's no math

Ed


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 Post subject: Re: Forgotten Shop Math
PostPosted: Thu May 30, 2019 5:56 am 
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Ruby50 wrote:
And that is my excuse for taking an hour and a half on a 30 minute job.


I just say "it's all about the process". No one can refute me and there's no math

Ed
I'm stealing that one Ed :)

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"Music is what feelings sound like"


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 Post subject: Re: Forgotten Shop Math
PostPosted: Thu May 30, 2019 11:24 am 
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Cocobolo
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Joined: Thu Oct 27, 2011 11:28 am
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First name: Leonard
Last Name: Duke
City: Kalamazoo
State: MI
Zip/Postal Code: 49001
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Focus: Repair
Status: Amateur
A job worth doing is worth doing twice!


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 Post subject: Re: Forgotten Shop Math
PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2019 7:54 pm 
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Mahogany
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Joined: Wed Sep 03, 2008 9:14 pm
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Location: Allenstown, NH
First name: Steve
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Zip/Postal Code: 03275
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Status: Amateur
I may be slow, but I'm not fast..


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 Post subject: Re: Forgotten Shop Math
PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2019 9:24 pm 
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Koa
Koa

Joined: Fri Feb 24, 2017 8:43 am
Posts: 930
I hear that once you’re “over the hill” you start picking up speed


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 Post subject: Forgotten Shop Math
PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2019 10:13 pm 
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Here’s my version as someone that works in a makerspace.

1) Hey babe, it’s probably going to be an hour and a half. (Not taking into account me being social.)

2) “No, seriously.”

3) What are you working on? Dang, that’s awesome. 20 minute conversation.

4) Start working.

5) “I’m on the way home.”

6) “I didn’t realize it would be four hours... Want me to get coffee?”

Alternatively, if I’m working on a “normal” project not related to luthiery, guitarmaking has made it such that I work three times slower than everyone else doing the same thing.


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 Post subject: Re: Forgotten Shop Math
PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2019 10:34 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jul 24, 2005 7:12 am
Posts: 435
Location: United States
No matter how fast or how slow I work, I always manage to do something really stupid on every project. It is usually a new mistake, and I always swear to never do it again. That's not math, just facts.


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 Post subject: Re: Forgotten Shop Math
PostPosted: Wed Oct 09, 2019 4:22 am 
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First name: Ed
Last Name: Minch
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State: MD
Zip/Postal Code: 21620
Country: United States
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
James

I never make the same mistake twice. Why waste time when there are so many new mistakes to make.

Ed


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 Post subject: Re: Forgotten Shop Math
PostPosted: Wed Oct 09, 2019 5:06 am 
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Walnut
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But if slower is faster, just think how much faster faster would be.... eek

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 Post subject: Re: Forgotten Shop Math
PostPosted: Wed Oct 09, 2019 5:51 am 
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Steven Wright: I put instant coffee in a microwave oven and almost went back in time.


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 Post subject: Re: Forgotten Shop Math
PostPosted: Wed Oct 09, 2019 9:33 am 
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My mantra: go slow, take your time, be patient. I don't always succeed at that. Making mistakes can be terribly frustrating. Making them in hyper-real, Matrix-style slo-mo is just depressing. :(

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 Post subject: Re: Forgotten Shop Math
PostPosted: Wed Oct 09, 2019 9:36 am 
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Cocobolo
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Joined: Mon Mar 17, 2014 1:27 pm
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Last Name: shelton
City: Alsea
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Country: usa
Focus: Build
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:|
phavriluk wrote:
I can't tell how much I've speeded up jobs by shutting down the bench at ten p.m.

Ten pm!!! I'm in bed asleep by then, I'm usually through with shop work by 3 pm and on my porch with a glass of wine by 4. But then, I'm older than dirt which I guess is as good an excuse for as any for sloth.


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 Post subject: Re: Forgotten Shop Math
PostPosted: Wed Oct 09, 2019 3:11 pm 
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Brazilian Rosewood
Brazilian Rosewood

Joined: Sat Jan 15, 2005 12:50 pm
Posts: 3310
Location: United States
I call that the 'koan of lutherie': "The slower you work the faster you get done".

In the book about the Voyager project they cited the hanger chief's rule:"No job takes less than an hour". It should take only ten minutes to sweep up, but it actually takes an hour....


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 Post subject: Re: Forgotten Shop Math
PostPosted: Wed Oct 09, 2019 5:56 pm 
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Cocobolo
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Joined: Fri Jan 15, 2016 9:04 pm
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First name: Andy
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Woodie G wrote:
... then by the Transitive Property of Equality as applied to the region of the shop housing my repair bench, slower equals faster. ...

I was never math proficient, in spite of lots of studies in the subject. That said, as my father explained to me - a cow is black, and black is a color, but a cow is not a color.


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 Post subject: Re: Forgotten Shop Math
PostPosted: Wed Oct 09, 2019 8:49 pm 
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Walnut
Walnut

Joined: Tue Jun 12, 2007 8:14 am
Posts: 19
Location: United States
I've also heard this:
"You can have any two: fast, good, cheap."
When you go fast you get cheap but not good,
When it's fast and good, then it's very expensive! (;-D


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 Post subject: Re: Forgotten Shop Math
PostPosted: Wed Oct 09, 2019 9:16 pm 
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Koa
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My Father used to say

"I used to be behind before, but now I'm first at last"


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