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The fellow above going for the scratch build reminds me of me. But I stil bought a kit while at the same time I built all of the major jigs (bender, binding channel cutter, etc)

I had a PM that highlighted that its possible that my post could be misinterpreted as there being no value in starting with a kit... this is obviously not the case and kits will inevitably mean that early builds can be done with minimal tools and with less investment and so allow a new builder to experience the process but without having to 'learn everything at once' - so to be clear I have no issue with kits or their usefulness.

However, Like all opinion its simply based on experience - in my case - I build from scratch using reasonable woods, because 1) I was hugely influenced by the challenge and philosophy that is actively encouraged by the Kinkade book, 2) at the time I naively thought I was only ever going to build one - so to me that meant the whole thing, and 3) because I would have access to a pro shop so tools were not an issue and I would also be able to ask questions and seek advice from the shops owner and friend... so I had a HUGE advantage...

But I do stand by the opinion that scratch has advantages over kits, because the learning process is extended to cover all aspects of the build which eventually everyone has to do anyway - and the earlier you start...?

It was also an amazing experience - sure it takes a huge amount of patience, can be daunting when you start on that neck joint or carving the profile, but wow! how fulfilling... Sure you make mistakes, and nothing is perfect, but as most will say thats not the point with these early instruments. Its about discovery, and learning and for me there was something amazing in first picking up that spoke shave and placing it on that mahogany block - a daunting and nerve tingling feeling which meant small tiny bits of wood removed at first and then bolder cuts as confidence grew... I would just add, that it was far from perfect, it caused frustration and a few choice words/expletives were probably uttered ... but instead of being disheartening, it was inspiring - it only hardeded teh resolve to improve the next, and the next etc - Its still very early days, but I think I am improving and the fun just multiplies with each tiny step forward, despite the steps back that keep your feet on the ground (and from which you arguably learn more from).

I am not giving advice on this, merely an opinion, and IMHO, its was such a great experience, despite the cussing moments that I would do it again if I had that time again...

I would agree with the above, but with the caveat that there are advantages to both!

Re. Point 4. I have no hesitation in agreeing with this, because being able to ask questions directly as you go along on techniques and get expert advice is invaluable.

I would add this though - before starting either option, there ios a huge amount of 'research' you can do. I would say i had an additional advantage in that as a player with an interest in the construction and history of guitars for over 20 years, I had read ahuge amount on woods, bracing, effects of different combinations of woods, tap tuning and a huge amount on various theories of construction which does provide a good basis is starting out with a 'from scratch approach' . Its like all things, teh more you can learn /read/get advice on before you start, the more chance of relative success you will have.

Re point 2. The full shop... yes its true but my 'slave driver' Insisted everything was done by hand so a few planes and decent chisels covered 95% of the tools used... a tough introduction, but very rewarding even when I cursed him under my breath as the blisters formed on my thumbs from scraping those sides...

Joey,
You seem to have the interest and availabilty of equipment, but it may be time to slow down on the planning and pick up on the research.
Have ya gone through any books or DVD`s?

Your query as to what a mold is gave it away.

Go for the scratch build if you have the woodworking experience (of which only we can be sure of ourselves).
Keep it cheap on cost.
Walnut B&S with Spruce top worked (and still does) for me. This is cheap if you watch what you buy.
Don`t skimp on the FB.
Hardware depends on what you want to pay in cash (You`ll need more, or have to save for it).

BUT FIRST...
Get some books, start reading ( most highly reccomended).
If you do the DVD thing, insert disc, press play.
Lots and lots of info out there in the e-world, too.
Sit back and take it all in (but not too deep).

Just a helpful suggestion.

Coe Franklin

_________________
Give me 50 cents worth of regular.
Check my oil too, if you don`t mind,,,

Hey thank you for the heads up!!! Ya I understand the importance of research! and trust me im going crazy with it : )...if you read my link that i posted, it tells you a little about what I have already done...I have the Guitar Making book, that is very commonly used...I would love more recommendations for books! People already have made some, but I would love to hear your prefrence on the best books...

The way I read Joey's list of requirements (sound, playability, warmth, etc) tells me he knows what he WANTS in a guitar. Scratch building to achieve that on the first build is highly unlikely to lead to that kind of success. Either Joey lowers his expectations, builds some jigs (well, a lot of jigs) and accepts that first builds can end up less than what one would hope, or Joey keeps his expectations, slows down, buys a highly serviced kit, and then goes through the process. There are several Martin kits available. Talk to John. Go play some of those styles in a store. Hopefully one of those will meet your requirements. Buy the serviced kit (and the mold) and build it, asking lots of questions along the way. BTW, I used to think a kit was an inexpensive way to get at the guitar I wanted. And in money, that can be true. But you will invest a lot of time in this project. If you take your time and think things through, you will end up with a fine instrument. Maybe I should post a pic of my kit that I built (from John).

Man, I learned SO much from that kit!! I ruined one back and the sides doing it! Replacing them was not too bad. I changed the bindings as I went and added a Sapele peghead plate (removed the one that came with the kit). Building the bender and binding channel cutter and radius dishes made more sense to me as I built the kit. You just cannot go wrong with a kit. If the word "kit" bothers you, trust me, once you get it, you will forget that it is a "kit".

My second guitar was a scratch build. Even then, I made endless mistakes. For example, I cut the sound hole before I routed the rosette channels!! Ugh!! and that was on a LARGE harp guitar top. Then, I mounted the top incorrectly (with ugly rosettes). Took me 4 months to be able to look at it again (I routed the top off and started over). I bent one of the sides backwards! Had to figure out how to reflatten it and then rebend it (it was already profiled). I purchased the wrong neck and several finger boards (custom built to MY specifications!!) I flat did not understand radiused backs and tops and how to prep the linings and blocks for it. The list is endless. But the kit gave me lots of clues. But there are pics of it here, and it came out just fine. I got into guitar building because I wanted a Dyer Style Harp Guitar. But I built a Martin OM kit first to get to the basics. I honestly and sincerely believe you will have a much better idea of how to build your dream guitar if you will start with a kit.

Mike

Have you checked out any of the many good books and videos available? All of them have a fairly complete "Necessary tools" list... You can build a fine instrument on a fairly meager set of tools.... For example -- many don't use Radius dishes, molds, go bar decks or bending forms for the 1st one.

I built my 1st 3 instruments on my kitchen table. Power tools were a laminate trimmer Router and an electric hand drill.

There is a good reason many here advise starting with a Kit -- It gets you past a huge number of pitfalls that generally stall/discourage new builders.... Those specifically are:
Jointing plates
Thinning plates to final thickness
Bending sides
Installing rosettes
Shaping necks

Why?

The Guitar Building Hobby is littered with folks who gave up on builds because of these 5 things.... The success rate is less than 20% finishing a Kit build, and lower on a full-on from scratch build (Probably less than 10%).... Consider those numbers -- 1 in 5 people who buys a kit for the 1st time actually ever finishes a playable instrument....

There is a really good reason for starting with a "Standard" 1st build -- say Sitka/EIR, Sitka/Mahogany, or Sitka/Maple.... These are reasonably inexpensive, work easily, and are well behaved... They are also "Traditional" choices for Instruments -- so they are pretty well understood...

Thanks

John

Truckjohn brings up some very good points!!

Thanks Fillipo! What amazes me is just how well that Martin OM kit sounds. I have lots of store bought guitars (including a Taylor 810) that I love. But I find myself reaching for that OM more often than not. With predetermined braces and brace locations, you just cannot go wrong. One point I have decided to include in my current harp project is the Martin tone bar. One more thing in the kit build area I would recommend is the bolt on neck as opposed to the dove tail joint. I like the dove tail, and that is what I did. But understanding it was way beyond what I was ready for. Do over? I would get the bolt on, and that is an option. I hesitate to mention this, because this is a normal area of debate, but remember, we are talking about a beginner's first build.

Mike

As far as side bending machines go, I built my own for about 20-30 bucks out of Al pipe some ply and a 200w light bulb. Haven't gotten to use it yet (as im not to the point of practicing bending sides) but it seemed to work fine for the person that posted the plans (believe it was off the kit builders forum). Blues Creek has a very nice bending machine from what i've read as well.

I went with an unserviced kit from LMI because i figured it would force me to build some of the jigs first, the only thing im using that is pre-made is the rosette as i really dont have the setup to make a good tile rosette from scratch, perhaps for future builds ill use more of a natural wood that could be made easier with the circle cuting Wells/Karol jig i'm making. Im using Cumpiano's book for my classical so i figured the unserviced gave me the most learning experience while still being able to fallow his instructions. Hopefuly, if im lucky, ill end up with something thats playable as well

Any way, just the 2 cents of another first time builder, take it for what its worth.

The ironic part that just never gets conveyed here is that you can have an amazingly rough looking instrument that "Plays" amazingly well... and vice versa -- a beautiful, perfect work of Art that doesn't actually function as an instrument...

The funny part about this is that they are 2-totally separate things... "Plays well" is mostly a function of fretwork, setup, intonation, and neck feel.... You can make a $40.00 Rogue guitar play surprisingly well with a few hours spent on a good fret level and crown and a well made bone nut and saddle.... They won't sound like a $10,000 instrument, but they sure will be easy to play...

The "Beautiful" part has a lot to do with fit and finish... The perfect finish job, gap free bindings, no chips or dings in the plates or sides, everything lined up just so....

If I had to give 1 piece of advice -- it would be to finish. Push on through... Don't worry about dings in the soundboard or gaps in the bindings or an ugly peghead... Take your time getting the bridge placement, nut, and saddle just right -- because this will ensure the instrument plays in tune.

Spend extra time on the fret ends and levelling and crowning -- it makes an instrument so much easier to play...

You can always reshape a neck that isn't very comfortable... but you just gotta scrap a fretboard that isn't cut right....

Thanks

John