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| Honing Guide Woes http://luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=18241 |
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| Author: | Lillian F-W [ Sun Aug 03, 2008 7:19 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Honing Guide Woes |
I gave up on trying to sharpen my chisels freehand. I bought the Veritas MK II. Good reviews here and a wonderful write up on magazines. I'm about to toss it out the window. Well maybe not. It works well on my plane blades. But I can't seem to get it to work with my chisels. I can't tighten the holder enough to keep it from swiveling when I set it in the center, so I put it as far to the side as I could. This helps a lot, but I'm also finding that to get an edge perpendicular to the side, I have to skew it a few degrees off 90. And that was a 1/2" one. I didn't even bother with the smaller ones. Is it something I'm doing or not doing? Should I be using a different guide for my chisels? I'm at a place where I can start building but I have to be able to sharpen my tools without taking all day or raising my blood pressure. Suggestions? |
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| Author: | Mike_P [ Sun Aug 03, 2008 7:47 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Honing Guide Woes |
I'm not sure what version of the Veritas I have (doesn't specify MK II or anything), but while I have had difficulties in the past getting the chisel properly aligned in the jig, I've not had any issues with it staying put once in place... perhaps the fixture that touches the chisel and holds it in place needs a drop of oil and some work to make it 'spin' (actually hold still on the chisel) better in relation to the threaded part... if this is just a simple case of not being strong enough to tighten it down, then use a pair of pliers (I have to do this occasionally with my laminate router's knob)... |
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| Author: | TonyFrancis [ Sun Aug 03, 2008 8:00 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Honing Guide Woes |
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| Author: | SteveCourtright [ Sun Aug 03, 2008 9:10 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Honing Guide Woes |
Lillian, The trouble might be with your chisels! If the surfaces being clamped are not flat, the chisel might pivot easily in the jig. Have you flattened the bottom of the chisel? This should be the first step in getting the chisel sharp. You do that free hand. Should be easy as a large surface of the chisel is held on the stone. Then see if it sits better in the jig. Just a thought. Steve |
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| Author: | Hesh [ Sun Aug 03, 2008 9:24 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Honing Guide Woes |
Lillian my friend I had the same problem with the MkII and my chisels too. Specifically the LMI chisels, which I love by the way, could not be securely clamped in the honing guide. I tried cutting out and applying some self-stick 220 paper to the chisel where it was clamped in the guide and that did the trick nicely. Once sharpened I of course remove the self-stick, hit the blade where the self-stick was with some naphtha and all is well. |
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| Author: | Lillian F-W [ Sun Aug 03, 2008 10:46 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Honing Guide Woes |
Mike, I thought about grabbing pliers, but I didn't want to break it, especially fresh out of the box. Steve, the bottom is polished. The top was a different story. It was crowned. I took that down and it helped a bit, but not enough. So I'll probably use Hesh's suggestion until my Eclipse clone arrives. All of my tools need a good attending to, so I'll take care of the large blades while I wait and hope that UPS doesn't take 9-14 days to find the left coast like they normally do. Thanks for the input gentlemen. Much appreciated. |
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| Author: | Frei [ Sun Aug 03, 2008 10:50 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Honing Guide Woes |
You can make your own jig. Just a nice old 2X4 (x4 or 5 inches) and a "strap" to hold it down, like a "T", angle it until the blade is flat on whatever stone you use, and just use it back and forth. Adjust the angle with cardboard to make a second bevel. Strope often, and yes, you can use 2000 grit wet dry with water to hone it when using. |
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| Author: | Kim [ Mon Aug 04, 2008 12:00 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Honing Guide Woes |
Lillian, You will have much more success with the Veritas Mk11 if, once you have the chisel clamped, you turn the jig around so that the back of the blade is facing you and you are pushing the jig away from you as you sharpen. Doing this will allow you to apply more pressure to the bevel and give more comfort and control with your thumbs pushing on the back of the blade. Using the jig in this way will also avoid the tendency for the bevel to be lifted or skipped across the surface of the abrasive as leverage is unwittingly applied by the user push down on the handle of the tool. It will also assist in drawing the wire of the edge to the back of the blade where you can watch it form as you work. The MK2 is a good jig, especially if using the scary sharp system, but like most things you do need to use it correctly to get the best from it. Cheers Kim |
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| Author: | Sam Price [ Mon Aug 04, 2008 1:28 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Honing Guide Woes |
I often sharpen my chisels by hand- all my hand carving tools have odd-shaped ends anyway, V profile, gouges, etc that is literally impossible to sharpen by a honing guide anyway- I find that the honing guides only work best when sharpening plane blades. Kim's suggestion is spot on- I use this technique if needing a sharp chisel fast; I thought it was just me creating a method out of sheer desperation! |
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| Author: | TonyFrancis [ Mon Aug 04, 2008 7:12 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Honing Guide Woes |
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| Author: | Lillian F-W [ Mon Aug 04, 2008 8:04 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Honing Guide Woes |
Kim and Sam, I'll give your method a shot later. I did notice a difference in my control when I was using a stone in the parrot vise as opposed to the paper on the bench. With the stone being elevated, I was able to drop my elbows below the stone's surface. lowering the center of gravity, giving me greater control. Thanks for the tip. Tony, I had never heard of it until you mentioned it yesterday. Side to side action makes a lot of sense from a control point of view. And I did consider buying the jig, but my wallet got the upper hand. 150.00 is just too steep for me. Maybe as a 50th birthday present. That could work. Yeah. |
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| Author: | Lillian F-W [ Mon Aug 04, 2008 10:38 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Honing Guide Woes |
Thanks Todd. Plenty of great information there. Kim, your suggestion worked a treat. One chisel down and a few more to go. Thanks again everyone for you insight and help. |
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| Author: | Kim [ Tue Aug 05, 2008 9:02 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Honing Guide Woes |
Aoibeann wrote: Thanks Todd. Plenty of great information there. Kim, your suggestion worked a treat. One chisel down and a few more to go. Thanks again everyone for you insight and help. Always pleasing to help out a good friend Lillian ![[:Y:]](./images/smilies/smiley20.gif "Thumbs Up") Cheers Kim |
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| Author: | joel Thompson [ Tue Aug 05, 2008 9:07 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Honing Guide Woes |
since i got one of these i have never looked back http://richardkell.co.uk/honingECom.htm by far better than any honing guide i have tried including the veritas. they even work on japanese chisels and thunb plane blades. Joel. |
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| Author: | Lillian F-W [ Tue Aug 05, 2008 11:27 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Honing Guide Woes |
Joel, I thought about getting one of those. I came really close, but I waffled. I should have just gone with my gut reaction, but.... It is on the list as a possible stocking stuffer though. |
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| Author: | Todd Rose [ Wed Aug 06, 2008 5:33 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Honing Guide Woes |
I put pieces of adhesive sandpaper on the faces of the MKII jig that grab the blade. Helps tremendously. Still not a perfect solution for everything, and really narrow chisels will have be done freehand or with a different jig. |
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| Author: | Mike_P [ Wed Aug 06, 2008 5:48 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Honing Guide Woes |
well...I just found a need to get some chisels scary sharp for some in the field work...I would assume from the above posts I have a MK I model with a single clamp... I was in a hurry as it was late at night and was pushing rather hard and noticed the same tendency for the chisel to move around...what I found was that reducing the amount of force and holding the chisel and jig with both hands solved the issue nicely...remember, it is usually best to let the tools do the work as opposed to using a lot of force. I remember having hosed a few stones over time by really pushing down with smaller chisels and for all effective purposes cutting a slot in it...the way I held the chisel and guide was the put my thumbs on the Veritas and one or two fingers of each hand on the shaft of the chisel...not that I've ever been totally pleased with the Veritas, it certainly does beat doing without... |
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| Author: | Kim [ Wed Aug 06, 2008 8:31 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Honing Guide Woes |
I can sharpen pretty much anything very well by hand. It is no big challenge for me to do so and has not been for the last 35 years since I got my eye in as a lad. But I still choose to use a jig, the Veritas MK2 in fact, when ever I feel it is necessary out of respect for my better tools to do so. When ever my firmers chisels and other 'construction' edge tools require a hone, they get a rub by hand on the old oil stone and they are plenty sharp. But for bench work, I have a full set of near new condition, wooden handle, blue label E.A. Bergs. These are simply beautiful chisels that cannot be found very easily in any condition today. When I hone those Bergs, I feel it is my duty not to remove anymore of that magic metal than necessary. A good jig, used in the correct manner, allows me to be very frugal with that magic Swedish steel. This not only ensure that I will enjoy these wonderful chisels as their maker had intended until I am compost, but also it will give the greatest opportunity for someone else maybe not yet born to grow and appreciate the value of great hand tools and maybe someone after them an opportunity to do the same. That is the fantastic thing about really good quality hand tools, you are never the owner, only the keeper, they out live you and will carry your passion forward. Tis a pity that not much else does that anymore in this age of consumerism. Cheers Kim |
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| Author: | Martin Turner [ Wed Aug 06, 2008 8:41 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Honing Guide Woes |
Ive just started using the cambered roller on my MKII jig when dressing my plane blades....its great once you get the hang of it. I now have a nice shallow curve on my blades and results with my smoothing plane on spruce tops is miles better. |
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| Author: | WaddyThomson [ Wed Aug 06, 2008 9:51 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Honing Guide Woes |
larkim wrote: I will enjoy these wonderful chisels as their maker had intended until I am compost, I can see it now: "Guitars by KIM COMPOST!" 
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| Author: | TonyFrancis [ Thu Aug 07, 2008 4:02 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Honing Guide Woes |
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