Another one:
"Quitting your job to follow your passion will usually result in you finding success at what you really want to do in life."
This does NOT apply to lutherie.
![[uncle]](./images/smilies/surrenderflagqv6.gif "Uncle")
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| Silly Urban Luthiery Myths http://luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=18529 |
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| Author: | Don Williams [ Mon Aug 25, 2008 10:10 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Silly Urban Luthiery Myths |
Another one: "Quitting your job to follow your passion will usually result in you finding success at what you really want to do in life." This does NOT apply to lutherie.
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| Author: | Darrin D Oilar [ Mon Aug 25, 2008 10:22 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Silly Urban Luthiery Myths |
"It's probably pretty inexpensive to do right? I mean, you just have to buy the wood and a few other things."  Darrin |
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| Author: | Terry Stowell [ Mon Aug 25, 2008 10:33 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Silly Urban Luthiery Myths |
Well Don, I'm glad SOMEONE finally came out and said it. Out loud. |
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| Author: | WaddyThomson [ Mon Aug 25, 2008 10:36 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Silly Urban Luthiery Myths |
ToddStock wrote: Just because it popped up AGAIN on UMGF, I'll mention it here: - Scratch-X DOES NOT contain silicone - WD-40 DOES NOT contain silicone Best to do your own homework when confronted with (improperly) inflated or downright nonsensical claims, or those in the 'too good to be true' category. Check the MSDS and Google the ingredients if in doubt. Is there a test for the presence of silicone? How do you remove it? |
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| Author: | Steve Kinnaird [ Mon Aug 25, 2008 11:02 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Silly Urban Luthiery Myths |
WaddyT wrote: ToddStock wrote: Just because it popped up AGAIN on UMGF, I'll mention it here: - Scratch-X DOES NOT contain silicone - WD-40 DOES NOT contain silicone Best to do your own homework when confronted with (improperly) inflated or downright nonsensical claims, or those in the 'too good to be true' category. Check the MSDS and Google the ingredients if in doubt. Is there a test for the presence of silicone? How do you remove it? Waddy, the two types of silcone used by those companies differ molecularly. The presence of one extra carbon atom means that they will bond to one another. So, you can remove Scratch-X by spraying liberally with WD 40. Or again, if trying to remove WD 40, flood the item w/ Scratch-X.  Todd, is this how they start? SK |
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| Author: | RodN [ Mon Aug 25, 2008 11:03 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Silly Urban Luthiery Myths |
Talking of which... on my recent tour of the Martin factory, I spotted this notice...  Rod |
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| Author: | Brad T [ Mon Aug 25, 2008 11:38 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Silly Urban Luthiery Myths |
Quote: Jim Warwick recently worked on a Greven with a top crack loaded with silicone from being Lemon Pledge'd Well, that answered my next question, because I have heard of folks doing this......
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| Author: | Howard Klepper [ Mon Aug 25, 2008 11:39 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Silly Urban Luthiery Myths |
ToddStock wrote: Just because it popped up AGAIN on UMGF, I'll mention it here: - Scratch-X DOES NOT contain silicone - WD-40 DOES NOT contain silicone Best to do your own homework when confronted with (improperly) inflated or downright nonsensical claims, or those in the 'too good to be true' category. Check the MSDS and Google the ingredients if in doubt. Someone on AFG posted that he called Meguiar's and was told that Scratch-X has a very small (whatever that means) amount of silicone. |
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| Author: | L. Presnall [ Mon Aug 25, 2008 12:13 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Silly Urban Luthiery Myths |
This is the best test for silicone...proof positive! ![[:Y:]](./images/smilies/smiley20.gif "Thumbs Up")
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| Author: | Billy T [ Mon Aug 25, 2008 12:46 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Silly Urban Luthiery Myths |
L. Presnall wrote: This is the best test for silicone...proof positive! Your a bad man Presnall! 
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| Author: | Erik Hauri [ Mon Aug 25, 2008 1:17 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Silly Urban Luthiery Myths |
This particular myth (I am certain) has originated because most folks don't know the difference between "silicone" (the polymer) and "silica" (a.k.a. silicon, silicate...tiny crushed and seived mineral grains based on SiO2). The former is a finish killer. The latter is the abrasive in many polishing compounds. The best test for "silicone" is to wipe the compound in question on a piece of scrap wood, clean it off, then shoot some clear coat on it and see what happens. 
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| Author: | Steve Saville [ Mon Aug 25, 2008 1:23 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Silly Urban Luthiery Myths |
ToddStock wrote: - Scratch-X DOES NOT contain silicone ........ That should say Scratch-X DID NOT contain silicone. Scratch-X DOES NOW contain silicone. I recently spoke with people at Maguirers on the phone. Two different people told me that they have recently change Scratch-X to contain silicone. Repeat - Scratch X DOES in fact have silicone oil in it. They do not recomend it for their pro auto shops because of this. It is a home care only product from their POV. |
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| Author: | Michael Dale Payne [ Mon Aug 25, 2008 1:55 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Silly Urban Luthiery Myths |
A couple of things that are the most come culprit for interdiction of silicone contamination in small shops is personal hygiene products mostly a few ultra care lotions and a few deodorants. But one biggie is the packing and corrosion preventives of new tools from overseas. How may have unpacked a Chinese bench vise without a good varsol cleaning before bringing it into the shop? |
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| Author: | Steve Saville [ Mon Aug 25, 2008 2:29 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Silly Urban Luthiery Myths |
Todd, I'm not sure that change would show up in an MSDS. Would they be required to updated the MSDS based on the addition of a nonflammable, non toxic, non hazardous change to their formulation? No fish eyes could be because you are using product made before the change. Give them a call. I made the guys on the phone double check. Based on the detailed information they gave (recent addition/not recommended for pro shops) and that it sounded like they were ready from their product sheets, I am pretty certain that it does contain SI oil. I'm not going to risk it. BTW - My investigation started when I got a PM from a guy on the AGF that asked why I could recommend Scratch Xbecause he just talked to them and confirmed that it had SI oil. I didn't believe it, so I checked it out for myself. |
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| Author: | Erik Hauri [ Mon Aug 25, 2008 4:08 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Silly Urban Luthiery Myths |
ToddStock wrote: As required by OSHA... [sarcasm] Now there's a regulation that'll strike fear in the heart of every industrial product manager... [/sarcasm] |
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| Author: | Steve Saville [ Mon Aug 25, 2008 4:22 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Silly Urban Luthiery Myths |
ToddStock wrote: ........Silicone is classed as a hazardous, .... No, silicone is not classified as hazardous. Quite to the contrary it is safe. I've been using silicone oil in medical devices for many years. Some of it comes of in the bloodstream during coronary procedures. I suspect that Maguires believes that the additions of SI oil is not a significant change and therefore chose not to update the MSDS. Here is a PDF of Dow Corning Silicone http://www.instrumart.com/assets/108/dw200_05_5010.pdf Taken directly from that MSDS sheet. OSHA HAZARDOUS COMPONENTS None present. This is not a hazardous material as defined in the OSHA Hazard Communication Standard. |
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| Author: | Terry Stowell [ Mon Aug 25, 2008 4:47 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Silly Urban Luthiery Myths |
why don't we do a couple tests? Real world samples.... Anyone wanna donate a guitar in white? <ducking and running....> 
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| Author: | Mike_P [ Mon Aug 25, 2008 6:00 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Silly Urban Luthiery Myths |
while good ol' WD-40 may not contain silicone, it is certainly NOT a good all around lubricant...in fact it is very bad to spray it anywhere near bearings (like on a saw) as it tends to lead to their destruction... |
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| Author: | Steve Saville [ Mon Aug 25, 2008 6:07 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Silly Urban Luthiery Myths |
ToddStock wrote: .....Given the studies on leakage done in the wake of the Dow/Corning silicone breast implant mess - with findings sufficient to nearly bankrupt Dow and result in a ban on silicone-filled implants - ..... Todd, That Dow implant mess proved only that a jury can make a bad decision. All studies post that fiasco have shown that there was nothing unhealthful about silicone - nothing. There is no scientific study showing that silicone is harmful. Silicone is inert in the human body. It does no harm. |
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| Author: | Steve Saville [ Mon Aug 25, 2008 6:33 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Silly Urban Luthiery Myths |
Mike_P wrote: while good ol' WD-40 may not contain silicone, it is certainly NOT a good all around lubricant...in fact it is very bad to spray it anywhere near bearings (like on a saw) as it tends to lead to their destruction... I remember a reply to a question in a bicycle magazine.. A guy wrote in asking if WD-40 was good to use as chain lubricant. The answer said to remember what WD-40 stands for. WD is for water dispersion 40 is the IQ of anyone that would use it as chain lubricant.  I would guess the same holds true in lutherie.
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| Author: | Don Williams [ Mon Aug 25, 2008 6:37 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Silly Urban Luthiery Myths |
Well, WD40 worked as a tap lubricant in a pinch yesterday when I couldn't find my tapping oil... so it isn't too bad a lubricant. |
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| Author: | Mike_P [ Mon Aug 25, 2008 8:36 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Silly Urban Luthiery Myths |
Don Williams wrote: Well, WD40 worked as a tap lubricant in a pinch yesterday when I couldn't find my tapping oil... so it isn't too bad a lubricant. its a great short term lubricant, but not long term (or so I have found)...these days I pretty much use it as a cleaner and then lubricate with oil or white lithium grease.... |
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| Author: | Steve Saville [ Mon Aug 25, 2008 11:21 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Silly Urban Luthiery Myths |
ToddStock wrote: I'm not arguing the court decisions, but the fact that the ....... It seems that you said you aren't arguing the court decisions and then you proceed to do so. That's something I would do!  Todd, I don' want to argue either, and will drop this after this post I would take you word on finish because it is your area of expertise. Medical devices is mine. Believe what you want, but your wrong about silicone being hazardous. I have the experience and expertise with silicone in medical devices. That Dow Corning suite as a total miscarriage of justice and made it very hard for people like me to develop life sustaining and life saving products without the use of silicone for several years. That's changed now that science has won out over the court of public opinion. You mentioned the 90's and the Mayo clinic. Here is a quote pulled from the Mayo clinic today about breast implants. "In 1992, responding to claims that silicone gel-filled breast implants had harmed tens of thousands of women, the Food and Drug Administration (FDA) banned the marketing of the devices for breast augmentation. Fourteen years and mountains of safety data later, the FDA relaxed its stance, approving two manufacturers' applications to market silicone gel-filled implants for breast augmentation once again." Read about it here - http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/breast ... ts/WO00052 A recent Harvard Nurses Epidemiologic Study conducted over a 14-year period finds no increased risk of connective-tissue disease or certain signs and symptoms of connective-tissue disease in women with silicone implants. Read this link about the 90's Harvard study - http://consumerlawpage.com/article/breast.shtml |
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| Author: | Setch [ Tue Aug 26, 2008 12:58 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Silly Urban Luthiery Myths |
ToddStock wrote: Just because it popped up AGAIN on UMGF, I'll mention it here: - Scratch-X DOES NOT contain silicone - WD-40 DOES NOT contain silicone Best to do your own homework when confronted with (improperly) inflated or downright nonsensical claims, or those in the 'too good to be true' category. Check the MSDS and Google the ingredients if in doubt. Todd, perhaps you could clarify thids post - the thread is titled 'luthiery urban myths', so anyone reading the first post could quite reasonably infer that what you posted are examples of an urban luthiery myths. Ergo: Scratch X and WD-40 *do* contain silicone. I had to read all the way to the end of the thread to confirm that you intended to state neither product contains silicone. |
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| Author: | David R White [ Tue Aug 26, 2008 6:31 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Silly Urban Luthiery Myths |
Todd was implying that the myth is that they do contain silicone, and he was trying to clarify that those products do not contain silicone. |
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