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Cocobolo bridges?
http://luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=18770		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  Geordie Adams [ Fri Sep 12, 2008 5:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Cocobolo bridges?
hi all
Cocobolo as a bridge wood, what would you expect it to sound like given it’s density.
It can certainly look attractive.
yours Geordie
Author:  Mike Collins [ Fri Sep 12, 2008 5:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Cocobolo bridges?
That is one DENSE wood!!!!!!!
But -I think it depends on what kind of guitar you want to use it on!
Plus all the other factors -bracing-wood thickness-etc....

I have seen it used very successfully !
If you have a wood somewhat less in weight i would use that first!

Mike [:Y:]
Author:  John Mayes [ Fri Sep 12, 2008 11:13 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Cocobolo bridges?
remember as a general rule the heavier the bridge the more it darkens/adds bass to the tone. Nothing world changing but it's there. I personally prefer slightly lighter weight bridges, but coco works just fine.
Author:  Carey [ Sat Sep 13, 2008 4:51 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Cocobolo bridges?
A question I've had also. Something I've noticed is that those with more experience in this field seem more
like chefs than say, metallurgists, lacking or reluctant to give precise answers, perhaps because there
isn't one. I like that..

Regarding Cocobolo generally, it is a Dalbergia with, imo, many of the desirable qualities Bz Rswood, and
in time will become the "best available." Richard Brune told me about buying Dalbergia Nigra for *$15
per back and side set* in the late 60s.. Seems to me like D. Retusa will go the same road. I have a hard time
with the dust though, and have to work with it outside.
Author:  Mike Collins [ Sat Sep 13, 2008 7:06 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Cocobolo bridges?
Coco dust can be nasty!!
many woodworkers are allergic to it!!
be careful!!!

Precise answers are for metal workers!

Musical instrument making usually follows traditional paths .
And all the parameters in guitar making make it impossible to say yes or no ,this is right ,that is wrong !
Find what works for you-keep an open mind to other ideas & have fun with it !!! [:Y:]

Mike
Author:  Doug-Guitar-Buckler [ Sat Sep 13, 2008 7:32 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Cocobolo bridges?
I would say use it! If you have some with nice tight grain it should work great, just make sure you scrape right before you glue!
Author:  Rvsgtr [ Sat Sep 13, 2008 8:50 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Cocobolo bridges?
I've used cocobolo on quite a few back/sides but my concern would be how well it will take the glue-up on a spruce top without using epoxy. Anyone got any experience with this? I have lots of cocobolo I just don't use much since it really works on my allergies.

thanks
Steve
Author:  Kevin Gallagher [ Sat Sep 13, 2008 11:16 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Cocobolo bridges?
As long as your fit is right between the bridge and the top surface and you're using good glue,
you'll havw no trouble with a Cocobolo bridge.

I'm with John Mayes on the tonal effects. Cocobolo being so dense will darken the sound a bit,
but it will likely be so little that most people wouldn't tell the difference between it and Ebony.

Regards,
Kevin Gallagher/Omega Guitars
Author:  Dan Minard [ Sat Sep 13, 2008 11:23 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Cocobolo bridges?
Steve;
How well the cocobolo sides will adhere to your spruce top is pretty much irrelevant because the top will be glued to the linings & the sides trimmed away for your bindings. As long as the linings are glued well to the sides, all is well. CA seems to work well on really oily cocobolo.
I had a bear of a time getting my twin cocobolo guitars glued together. I ended up using epoxy to attach the linings. Messy, but effective. It takes some practice to figure out how little glue is actually needed.
I made one coco bridge, but it was a lot heavier than I wanted... Currently hooked on Macassar ebony for my bridges. A little lighter than Gabon & really pretty.
Author:  Rvsgtr [ Sat Sep 13, 2008 1:11 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Cocobolo bridges?
thanks Dan but I was referring to the cocobolo bridge glueing up well to the top since cocobolo is so oily. I too had to always use Smith All Wood Epoxy to successfully glue cocobolo to anything. Its a good glue as it dries so hard but if you mess up it doesn't reverse unfortunately.

thanks, however.

SR
Author:  John Mayes [ Sat Sep 13, 2008 1:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Cocobolo bridges?
Rvsgtr wrote:
thanks Dan but I was referring to the cocobolo bridge glueing up well to the top since cocobolo is so oily. I too had to always use Smith All Wood Epoxy to successfully glue cocobolo to anything. Its a good glue as it dries so hard but if you mess up it doesn't reverse unfortunately.

thanks, however.

SR


Coco will glue fine to the top. You can wipe the gluing surface with acetone and then wait till it dries and then glue. It will help remove some of the oils, but it will most likely be just fine gluing it straight up. Clean smooth tight fitting joints are the key.
Author:  Mike Collins [ Sat Sep 13, 2008 2:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Cocobolo bridges?
John hit the nail on the head!!!!!
Clean,smooth,tight fitting joints!!!!
Coco will work !!
mike
Author:  rgirdis [ Sat Sep 13, 2008 4:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Cocobolo bridges?
I used cocobolo for a bridge once on a koa top. It was a good clean joint when I glued it on with hide glue. It stayed on for few days then started to pull off.
I took it all the way off, thinned it slightly, and then epoxied a thin veneer of ebony to the bottom of the bridge, then glued the bridge back on to the koa top with hide glue. No problems since.
I usually wipe the cocobolo down with acetone before gluing and roughing up the glue surface. If you wipe off the acetone with a white paper towel you will see a lot of oil coming out of the wood. I've been using coco a lot for head plates and usually epoxy those on mostly to keep water (from water based glue) out of the peg head. The peg heads always warp a little if I do that. Since these are not joints that will be stressed, like a bridge, I don't worry about these popping off.
Author:  AndrewGribble [ Sat Sep 13, 2008 5:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Cocobolo bridges?
John Mayes wrote:
I personally prefer slightly lighter weight bridges, but coco works just fine.


John, what species of bridge material do you choose to use that is lighter than coco? Other rosewoods, etc?
Author:  John Mayes [ Sat Sep 13, 2008 6:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Cocobolo bridges?
AndrewGribble wrote:
John Mayes wrote:
I personally prefer slightly lighter weight bridges, but coco works just fine.


John, what species of bridge material do you choose to use that is lighter than coco? Other rosewoods, etc?


I normally use rosewood if left to my own devices. Brazilian is a favorite, but I select the pieces for weight and looks. Weight more so than looks. I fell it gives the guitar a bit more edge/pop than with ebony. I make my brides decently thin too as of late. As well as I've been moving towards pyramid/vintage gibson style bridges. Here is a pic of a brz belly style bridge I did a few years back.

Image
Author:  Glenn LaSalle [ Sat Sep 13, 2008 6:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Cocobolo bridges?
How about Mad Rosewood? How does that compare to, say, Brazilian RW?

Thx!

Glenn
Author:  Mike Collins [ Sat Sep 13, 2008 6:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Cocobolo bridges?
Mad. & Braz . are about as equal as you can get!!!


Nice top john!!!!
mc
Author:  J Jones [ Sun Sep 14, 2008 9:42 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Cocobolo bridges?
Carey wrote:
Regarding Cocobolo generally, it is a Dalbergia with, imo, many of the desirable qualities Bz Rswood, and
in time will become the "best available." Richard Brune told me about buying Dalbergia Nigra for *$15
per back and side set* in the late 60s.. Seems to me like D. Retusa will go the same road..


haven't mexico stoped all coco export?
Author:  joel Thompson [ Sun Sep 14, 2008 11:25 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Cocobolo bridges?
They have Risticted export only not banned it alltogether,

It will still come out of mexico.
I Think as soon as mexico and brazil see guitar makers using there naive wood they automaticaly restrict export to push the price up.
It also comes out of nicuagura and they are fine with exports at present.
Plus the americans/germans/chinese have plenty of the stuff stock piled that should keep the supply line open for our trade for a while.
It also grows like a weed but i know that alot of old growth trees have been felled mainly for the furnitur trade.
i recently heard of someone buying a solid cocobolo florr for there kitchen :o

As coco as a bridge wood all i can i say is i love it personaly and its one of my best selling bridge types.
apart that i cant really comment on whether it will have any audible effect on the tone of your guitar.
espesialy if you havent built many and you dont have anything to referance it against (like me).

Joel.
Author:  Bobc [ Sun Sep 14, 2008 1:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Cocobolo bridges?
Don't forget Honduran RW is also a good bridge material.
Author:  elysne [ Mon Sep 15, 2008 3:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Cocobolo bridges?
I just did two Coco B/S with a Coco bridges. No problems gluing to the top which is Sitka. I don't advise wiping with acetone before gluing. Most oily woods will start to bleed oil out when you do this. I prefer a freshly cut well fitted surface and have never had a problem.
Author:  joel Thompson [ Mon Sep 15, 2008 3:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Cocobolo bridges?
Bobc wrote:
Don't forget Honduran RW is also a good bridge material.



Yes i think honduras rosewood is better bridge materiel myself.
i love it or fingerboards also but i have trouble finding stock without pin knots.
these are allways stable in hondo rsw but it still down grades the fingerboard which is why i think not many suppliers sell it as a fingerboard wood.

The other rosewoods like dalbergia tucerensis (guatamalan/peruvian rosewood) and even tulipwood (not polar) make great bridge blanks in there own right.

Joel.
Author:  Howard Klepper [ Mon Sep 15, 2008 4:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Cocobolo bridges?
joel Thompson wrote:
Bobc wrote:
Don't forget Honduran RW is also a good bridge material.



Yes i think honduras rosewood is better bridge materiel myself.
i love it or fingerboards also but i have trouble finding stock without pin knots.
these are allways stable in hondo rsw but it still down grades the fingerboard which is why i think not many suppliers sell it as a fingerboard wood.

The other rosewoods like dalbergia tucerensis (guatamalan/peruvian rosewood) and even tulipwood (not polar) make great bridge blanks in there own right.

Joel.

Never heard tucarensis called Peruvian, but have heard it called Panamanian. Is that what you meant to say? It is quite a bit lighter in weight than stevensonii.

I've use cocobolo for bridges without problem. Less damping than ebony with similar density (but damping isn't all bad--depends on what you want). I used to wipe with acetone and get good results; now I just make sure I have a freshly exposed surface--like within 5 minutes of gluing.
Author:  joel Thompson [ Mon Sep 15, 2008 6:39 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Cocobolo bridges?
Howard Klepper wrote:
Never heard tucarensis called Peruvian, but have heard it called Panamanian. Is that what you meant to say? It is quite a bit lighter in weight than stevensonii.



Yep thats what i ment peru/panama hey they may as well be the same country :?

There really should be a standard name for tucerensis i call guatamalan rosewood but i have seen some sell it as honduras rosewood which is just plain misrepresentation IMHO.

You are right tucerensis is lighter than stevensonii and it can vary greatly in looks.
i really like it as a wood in its own right but it can be a bit boring looking.

But it makes a supurb bridge materiel as it has ping factor of honduras but less the weight.
Author:  GregG [ Mon Sep 15, 2008 6:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Cocobolo bridges?
For those of you using/gluing cocobolo bridges....what glue has worked for you?

Thanks,
Greg
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