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Indecision & Agony!!
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Author:  Mike OMelia [ Wed Oct 22, 2008 12:42 pm ]
Post subject:  Indecision & Agony!!
Ok, just when I am ready to buy the Grizzly bandsaw, G0514X2 and the Grizzly Table Saw G1023SLW, I read something or get an email, or talk to someone who is not so hip on them. Here is what I hear: "You get what you pay for". Or, resale is 40-50% (as opposed to Jet, Powermatic, etc).

But here is my dilemma. Getting the tool purchases by my wife! Bet nobody else in here has to deal with that. I wanna be able to resaw (big issue for me). Build molds, cut parts and so on. Are these tools up to the task, or am I making a dumb investment, one I will surely regret?

Help!!

Mike
Author:  Michael Dale Payne [ Wed Oct 22, 2008 12:55 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Indecision & Agony!!
Capacity, features and product reliability. If these machines fit your bill for the preceding and the price is in your range then you getting decent machines. If your price range is open to $800-$1500 more combined then you can get better machines that will resell for more and offer more HP and such. That is your dilemma. All I can say is with the machines you have picked out you can do all the tasks you have set out, and the machines are reliable machines for the tasks you need to perform. I look at resell values when I buy a home or a car. Machine tools I can’t say that I have ever given resell value a passing thought. As I never plan get rid of them. I look for quality but not resell.
Author:  Don Williams [ Wed Oct 22, 2008 1:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Indecision & Agony!!
Why would you buy something you plan on re-selling? And if you sell it in 10 or 15 years, you've probably got you money's worth out of it, so does the resale price really matter? I agree with Michael here. Sure, there are better tools out there for a lot more money, but these will work fine. If you start selling bunches of guitars and hire workers, maybe you'll want better tools eventually. For now, these will provide good service for many years.
Author:  Mike OMelia [ Wed Oct 22, 2008 1:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Indecision & Agony!!
I think I find that $$ increase a bit difficult to believe... but I am open to ideas.

Mike
Author:  Brad T [ Wed Oct 22, 2008 1:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Indecision & Agony!!
I agree with Michael and Don. My philosophy has always been to buy the best I can afford, and I can't afford a Powermatic and similar machines. If I were worried about the resale value of a tool, I would consider getting a used one in good shape, and let someone else pay the depreciation.

I'm running a Craftsman Professional 16" saw for general sawing and light resawing, up to 5" or so. Anything bigger, and I fire up the VERY used Northfield Foundry 36" throated, 8 foot tall weighs-as-much-as-my-Ford-truck mammoth :mrgreen: that needs power brakes and a jake brake. I got a sweet deal on that one and it will resaw anything you toss into it, arms included. Point is that used stuff can be as good, but cheaper than new, and you might get your money out of it should the need arise...
Author:  Mike OMelia [ Wed Oct 22, 2008 1:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Indecision & Agony!!
OK, I got another deal.... Jet 18" Bandsaw, 3HP (not the QT version)
Jet Super Saw with Exacto Fence
and PowerMatic 2800 Drill Press. With cashback, I can get all for $2000, plus I can save on shipping since the store is 90 miles from me. What about that? I get a good enough saw, plus a good enough bandsaw, and an excellent drill press for less than the price of the grizzly bandsaw and cabinet saw.

Mike
Author:  Jason [ Wed Oct 22, 2008 1:36 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Indecision & Agony!!
Grizzly gets a bad rep because people think their stuff is "cheap".. There is a difference between cheap and inexpensive ;)

I've got a 16" bandsaw, 3 or 4 dust collectors (varying sizes), a 12" Z series spiral jointer,their big spindle sander, and a horizontal bandsaw.. I plan on outfitting my next shop with their stuff as well (sometime next year)

It's not "the best" but if it gets the job done what more do you want?

Our stuff is purchased through the company, written off, and I run everything until it dies ;) Resale isn't much of a consideration.
Author:  Michael Dale Payne [ Wed Oct 22, 2008 1:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Indecision & Agony!!
slackkey_mike wrote:
I think I find that $$ increase a bit difficult to believe... but I am open to ideas.

Mike


??? I said you can pay $800- or more amd get much more those wer figurtive terms not set amounts my main point was for the mony you are giving you would be buying approprate for the quaility.
Author:  Mike OMelia [ Wed Oct 22, 2008 1:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Indecision & Agony!!
OK, but what do you think about the combination I mentioned above?

Mike
Author:  Brad T [ Wed Oct 22, 2008 1:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Indecision & Agony!!
Regarding my above post, I am not purporting that you go get a Craftsman Professional saw. I was looking at the Grizzly vs the Craftsman when I bought this one, and it was the wrong decision, I think, because of several issues I had with mine. Craftsman's products nowadays do not seem be as good as they were 25 years ago, and that purchase turned me off of them. If I had the money at the time, I would have bought a Laguna, but those are quite pricey for me. Grizzly has some pretty good tools as well as Shop Fox. A few years ago, a Shop Fox dealer told me that their product was basically a more refined Grizzly. Don't know if that is true.
Author:  Darrin D Oilar [ Wed Oct 22, 2008 1:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Indecision & Agony!!
I'm a used machinery kinda guy. I bought a 1960's Unisaw for $600. I recently saw on Craigslist here (and I may not be in the middle of nowhere, but I'm right at the edge), an 18 inch 3hp Jet bandaw for like $950. Combined, those are two very nice pieces of machinery that cost less than the bandsaw did new.

You have to be willing to invest time in searching and of course check to make sure the machinery is up to snuff. Fortunately for you and unfortunately for them, in these financial times there are a lot of cabinet shops going out of business and selling their equipment.

If you have the money to spend on new and aren't inclined to buy used or are worried that you'll get a bum machine with no warranty, I've never seen anything wrong with the Grizzly products.

Hope I've further complicated this for you. :D

Darrin
Author:  douglas ingram [ Wed Oct 22, 2008 2:02 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Indecision & Agony!!
Getting the tool purchase decision past my wife is always job #1! If the share-holders and board of directors don't approve of the new tooling, it don't happen. Its my job to prove that the tool purchase is necessary.

I, also, don't fuss about re-sale value as any tool I intend to purchase is for me to use. Why would I sell it unless it didn't do what it was supposed to do? Figure out the task, decide on the tool for the job, and get one that you can live with, no regrets.

For me, I use my bandsaw all the time, so I need a good reliable one. Big isn't the issue. I don't use a table saw, and after 15 years full time woodworking, I just got my first one. Granted, I inherited it from my father-in-law and its an old Beaver 8". I still haven't used it but I have to keep moving it out of the way. Oh! wait, the table is covered with all my drill bits as I'm sorting them out...so I am using it!
Author:  Brad T [ Wed Oct 22, 2008 2:02 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Indecision & Agony!!
slackkey_mike wrote:
OK, but what do you think about the combination I mentioned above?

Mike


Sounds like you are not getting ripped off if you get them. Compare apples to apples when you look at the type of saws between them and Grizzly, and don't compare a cabinet saw to a contractors saw (table saws). Personally I have the Jet contractors saw, and I just don't see myself spending the $$$ for a cabinet saw as this one pretty much does all I need it to do, including the heel angle. I could use a much better miter guage than the one that came with the saw, but hey, with the $$$ I saved, I can get a Biesmeyer fence AND the nice miter guage!
Author:  Michael Dale Payne [ Wed Oct 22, 2008 2:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Indecision & Agony!!
slackkey_mike wrote:
OK, but what do you think about the combination I mentioned above?

Mike


For the money they are fine. you can spend more but they will do just fine for what you want to do. I can't say they are the best but they are fine. It all de3pends on you if you really want a the best for the money I would go with Laguna band saw and high end Delta table saw but I don't know what your buget is and ther is nothing wrong with these machines in terms or the work you plan to do.

Heck for a table saw I bought a Rigid contractors with a cast iron table and extentions. I paid roughly $550 for it from Home Depot a few years back high end tabe saw nuts would call it junk. It has bee a great saw not one task I do has it failed to perform perfectly. I find if the machine has the HP to do the work, has a well built table, lift frame and motor then the rest is in the operator set up
Author:  Mike OMelia [ Wed Oct 22, 2008 2:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Indecision & Agony!!
I have narrowed down to my final.

Grizzly: 19" Bandsaw 1295 - 200 (rebate) + 96.50 (shipping) = 1191.50
Grizzly: Table Saw 1050 - 200 (rebate) +146.50 (shipping) = 996.50

Grizzly Total: 2188, 1 year warranty, no drill press

Or, from General Industrial, Nashville, Scratch & Dent, 30 day warranty only

Jet: 18" Bandsaw 1075 - 200 = 875
Jet: Table Saw 800 - 200 = 600
PowerMatic: Drill Press 715 - 178 = 537

GI Total = 2012 (no shipping, I go get it)

PLEASE, give me your opinions!!!!!

Mike
Author:  Michael Dale Payne [ Wed Oct 22, 2008 2:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Indecision & Agony!!
Can you go look at the Jet and powermatic before you commit? I would not want to buy a non- full warrenty un less I was fully confident in the condition of the machines.
Author:  Mike OMelia [ Wed Oct 22, 2008 2:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Indecision & Agony!!
It would be a hassle. But I could.

Here is what I would probably be the happiest with. Grizzly. Why? I have heard NOTHING but GREAT customer service. And for some reason I cannot understand, My gut keeps pushing me that way. But then, no drill press for now.

I could go look at the tools, but then I would have to go back to pick them up (they require 1-4 days to prep them)

Mike
Author:  Mike OMelia [ Wed Oct 22, 2008 2:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Indecision & Agony!!
Man, this is stupid. It was not that long ago I was buying computers that cost $3000. And where are those heaps of junk today???

duh
Author:  Brad T [ Wed Oct 22, 2008 3:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Indecision & Agony!!
slackkey_mike wrote:
I have narrowed down to my final.

Grizzly: 19" Bandsaw 1295 - 200 (rebate) + 96.50 (shipping) = 1191.50
Grizzly: Table Saw 1050 - 200 (rebate) +146.50 (shipping) = 996.50

Grizzly Total: 2188, 1 year warranty, no drill press

Or, from General Industrial, Nashville, Scratch & Dent, 30 day warranty only

Jet: 18" Bandsaw 1075 - 200 = 875
Jet: Table Saw 800 - 200 = 600
PowerMatic: Drill Press 715 - 178 = 537

GI Total = 2012 (no shipping, I go get it)

PLEASE, give me your opinions!!!!!

Mike


I'll help!! Go look at the General Ind. stuff, and make sure that the scratches and dents are solely cosmetic. If they are, and you can live with the short warranty, get them! As Michael said, don't commit until you are absolutely sure there are no structural issues. Dropping a saw off the truck is a surefire way of bending something that would render the saw useless for accuracy. Bend the tower on the bandsaw.....piece of crap. Same with trunnion mounts on the table saw.

If you think there is any possibility of some structural issues with any of them because they were dropped, etc, and you don't like the warranty limitations and don't want to go out on a limb regarding the warranty, get the Grizz stuff. You can always get the press later.

Wow...I bought a new tablesaw (jet contractor's) new drillpress (delta) and a new crapsman (not happy with it out of the box but works fine now) bandsaw for less than 2 grand. I waited until clearance at Lowes. And Michael's Rigid TS contractor's is a fine saw as well.

Go with the Grizzly stuff. Warranty, customer service, etc. That's what I would do. Regarding what you say about the drill press....I bought a router once because it had the "free fence" with it....I should have bought what my gut told me to do... duh and bought the other one. "Free" ain't always free........ 8-)
Author:  Mike OMelia [ Wed Oct 22, 2008 3:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Indecision & Agony!!
What if I just get a piece of crap grizzly drill press (they do not seem to offer much here, no laser, etc)... but at least there is a year warranty??? AND, I am NOT concerned with resale.
Author:  Brad T [ Wed Oct 22, 2008 3:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Indecision & Agony!!
slackkey_mike wrote:
What if I just get a piece of crap grizzly drill press (they do not seem to offer much here, no laser, etc)... but at least there is a year warranty???


The giant "laser" (best Dr Evil voice) is really overrated. My Delta has one and I never use it, with one exception. I lay a neck on the press, face down, and the laser shoots a staight line down the center and I mark it.

Do you have to have the press right now? If not, wait until you see one you like and spend the money on it. I've had a wood shop for 7 years now, and I just got a drill press earlier this year.
Author:  Mike OMelia [ Wed Oct 22, 2008 3:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Indecision & Agony!!
I can wait a bit. My list includes air compressor, drill press & a buffer (after saw and bandswaw). I spose I could get the Grizzly Hybrid ssaw instead. Save some space??
Author:  Brad T [ Wed Oct 22, 2008 3:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Indecision & Agony!!
slackkey_mike wrote:
I can wait a bit. My list includes air compressor, drill press & a buffer (after saw and bandswaw). I spose I could get the Grizzly Hybrid ssaw instead. Save some space??


Personally I like the regular, dedicated saws, but I don't know the size of your shop. Mine is 30 x 30' and it doesnt take long to run out of room. Compressor and buffer came to my shop before the drillpress did, and I'd ditch my drill press before I got rid of either those!
Author:  Mike OMelia [ Wed Oct 22, 2008 3:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Indecision & Agony!!
I just thought about something. If the GI tools have ANY issues, I have the right to return withing 30 days. Yes, that could be a nightmare... but.... I'm not stuck
Author:  Mike OMelia [ Wed Oct 22, 2008 3:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Indecision & Agony!!
I'm going with GI (3 tools)
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