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Robbie O'Brien's French Polish Course
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Author:  Hesh [ Mon Feb 23, 2009 7:27 am ]
Post subject:  Robbie O'Brien's French Polish Course
A number of OLFers are currently in Robbie O'Brien's on-line French polish course and last night we started French polishing. Robbie is a superb teacher and his method is unique in as much as it provides very fast results and is super easy to do.

My one previous stint with French polish had mixed but acceptable results but what impressed me the most about the FP process was that I completely enjoyed doing it. It is very relaxing and unlike some things in life you can see you progress right before your very eyes very quickly.

Using Robbie's method take a look at the results that I have after only two cycles/sessions. I am not done yet and plan on perhaps 2 more session to build the vapor thin finish further. But I am very pleased with the results and look forward to learning more from Robbie in the coming weeks.

Even though my lack of photographic skills would not capture the true beauty of this piece and it's finish take a peek:

Attachment:
DSCN3176.jpg


Thanks for looking! [:Y:] :)
Author:  Lars Stahl [ Mon Feb 23, 2009 8:49 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Robbie O'Brien's French Polish Course
Thant is just beautiful !!

I so wish I could have attended this course. !!
Author:  SniderMike [ Mon Feb 23, 2009 10:49 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Robbie O'Brien's French Polish Course
Hesh, that looks very nice! I took Robbie's FP class several years ago, and it is indeed top notch. Great method and excellent results.

I've been trying to convince him to do the online course in only his underpants, but he's too shy. Or too professional.
Author:  Chris Paulick [ Mon Feb 23, 2009 6:41 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Robbie O'Brien's French Polish Course
How long before the pores are filled?
Author:  Hesh [ Mon Feb 23, 2009 7:17 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Robbie O'Brien's French Polish Course
SniderMike wrote:

I've been trying to convince him to do the online course in only his underpants, but he's too shy. Or too professional.


That's funny that you brought this up Mike because I am taking the course in my boxers but no one can see because I am sitting at a bench....... :D

Chris bro the pores are all filled, it's my crappy photography.... gaah :D This thing is very difficult to photograph since it is so shiny and the pic that you see above is with the camera flash turned off.
Author:  Chris Paulick [ Mon Feb 23, 2009 7:36 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Robbie O'Brien's French Polish Course
Do you use pumice to pore fill or are you pore filling with something else? Is this the same method as Robbie's Video?
Author:  Hesh [ Mon Feb 23, 2009 7:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Robbie O'Brien's French Polish Course
Chris Paulick wrote:
Do you use pumice to pore fill or are you pore filling with something else? Is this the same method as Robbie's Video?


Chris bro I used Z-poxy for my test pieces even though Robbie taught us several other methods. FP requires a perfect surface prep and I do great with epoxy so I used it.
Author:  SniderMike [ Tue Feb 24, 2009 2:09 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Robbie O'Brien's French Polish Course
Hesh wrote:

That's funny that you brought this up Mike because I am taking the course in my boxers but no one can see because I am sitting at a bench....... :D


laughing6-hehe I could have guessed that! Good thing you don't need your bending iron for FP.
Author:  Chris Paulick [ Tue Feb 24, 2009 8:09 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Robbie O'Brien's French Polish Course
Thank God the web cam isn't on! That's one image I don't want stuck in my mind. wow7-eyes :P
Author:  Hesh [ Tue Feb 24, 2009 11:32 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Robbie O'Brien's French Polish Course
OK I have been busy doing my home work for Robbie's class and here is my test piece after 4 sessions. I think I will call this one done for now or at least until Robbie teaches us how to buff out the FP by hand.

Attachment:
DSCN3194.jpg


It's not perfect by any means but it does look killer in person and my results are 100 times better than they were when I had my previous go at FP a couple of years ago.

Shellac seems to be very complimentary of the natural wood and I can see some real depth even though this finish is probably not much thicker than .001 or so.

Robbie's method is VERY fast and I could see how I could do an entire guitar with this method in a day or two max. Thanks again Robbie!!! [:Y:] [clap] [clap] [clap] [clap] [clap]
Author:  Jim Kirby [ Tue Feb 24, 2009 5:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Robbie O'Brien's French Polish Course
I also feel like I'm learning a lot from this course. One thing I learned right away is that I've always been working with a pad that is a little too wet - not a lot, but it makes an immense difference. I've also been using too much oil, which has been complicating the process of getting a nice clear final finish.

I know that a number of FP afficionados don't think that the Brune process is the real deal, but I would still recommend the course for it's value in teaching the extent to which a little goes a long way.

Robbie has urged us to work on a number of sample boards, and one of the things I have been doing is polishing one board that has a Z-poxy grain fill sanded back to wood, and one with a final thinned wash coat of epoxy. At this point (possibly not the final word), I would conclude that sanding back to wood is the way to go. I am finding that, due to the ultimate thinness of the FP finish, the process of leveling is always dealing with whatever texture was left in the final Z-poxy wash coat, no matter how smooth you thought it was to start. (It also makes abrasive leveling pretty mandatory.)

One regret - I wish I had done the sanded back Z-poxy test and the wash-coated Z-poxy test on the same wood. I can't tell if the finish I am getting on the wash-coated Padauk is due to the wash coat or the shellac. In any case, I'm impressed! I had no idea it's such a pretty wood under finish.
Author:  Rod True [ Tue Feb 24, 2009 5:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Robbie O'Brien's French Polish Course
Now tell us why again. Why don't you think you'll use that set of EIR for a gutiar? wow7-eyes

That's looking awesome Hesh.
Author:  Hesh [ Tue Feb 24, 2009 6:45 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Robbie O'Brien's French Polish Course
Rod True wrote:
Now tell us why again. Why don't you think you'll use that set of EIR for a gutiar? wow7-eyes

That's looking awesome Hesh.


Because I cut the two piece back set in halves for this course...... wow7-eyes :D It's not a very pretty piece of wood anyway do you think?
Author:  Hesh [ Tue Feb 24, 2009 6:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Robbie O'Brien's French Polish Course
Jim my friend I agree with your assessment completely!

Something that I want to add that I am learning is that the amount of pressure that one applies needs to be very dynamic. For example when the pad has just been recharged very little pressure beyond making contact with the wood and seeing the shellac flow and flash off is required. As the pad gets drier more pressure and ultimately a lot more pressure when polishing with a very dry pad.

I suppose that this becomes automatic when one does this enough.

Also the more oil you put on the more oil you have to remove - one drop goes a very long way.

Lastly I am very glad that Everclear was not available when I was a teenager...... :D
Author:  Jim Kirby [ Tue Feb 24, 2009 8:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Robbie O'Brien's French Polish Course
Hesh wrote:

Lastly I am very glad that Everclear was not available when I was a teenager...... :D


Hesh's FP setup - pad, bottle of 1 lb cut shellac, bottle of olive oil, bottle of everclear, bottle of orange juice ...
Author:  Hesh [ Tue Feb 24, 2009 8:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Robbie O'Brien's French Polish Course
guilty as charged! :D laughing6-hehe
Author:  Darryl Young [ Wed Feb 25, 2009 1:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Robbie O'Brien's French Polish Course
Hesh,

The finish is beautiful!

I like the color of the wood and think it would make a pretty guitar.

When you are done with the class.......make a tutorial! <smile>
Author:  Hesh [ Sun Mar 01, 2009 7:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Robbie O'Brien's French Polish Course
We just finished our third class with Robbie learning to French polish bliss

Tonight we learned how to polish and repair a French polished finish and man is this an easy finish to work with. It's super repairable and nothing toxic to contend with if you use Everclear.

Jim and Andy's work boards look fantastic and hopefully they will post some pics too.

Here is mine after polishing it by hand:

Attachment:
DSC01991.jpg


Other then one mysterious bout of fart noises this evening the class went great....... :D

Thanks for looking...... :)
Author:  Chris Paulick [ Sun Mar 01, 2009 8:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Robbie O'Brien's French Polish Course
Looks sweet Hesh but why does the Everclear seem to be about half empty and there's a full bottle of shellac left. ;)
Author:  ChuckH [ Sun Mar 01, 2009 8:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Robbie O'Brien's French Polish Course
Hesh,
Can you tell us what you have in the Meguiars bottle behind the first one? Also, do you use olive oil?

Can you give details on polishing by hand?

I tried to FP my first guitar but it didn't turn out too good. The second guitar turned out 100% better but there was still some oil left on the top when it was finished. I used mineral oil.

Wish I would have gotten in this class
Author:  James Orr [ Sun Mar 01, 2009 10:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Robbie O'Brien's French Polish Course
Hesh, that looks fantastic!
Author:  WaddyThomson [ Sun Mar 01, 2009 10:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Robbie O'Brien's French Polish Course
I'm, betting the other bottle of Meguires stuff is Swirl Remover.
Author:  Hesh [ Mon Mar 02, 2009 6:37 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Robbie O'Brien's French Polish Course
WaddyThomson wrote:
I'm, betting the other bottle of Meguires stuff is Swirl Remover.


Right-you-are Waddy - what you are seeing is #9 and #7. It's interesting that Meguires numbering system has no rhyme or reason to it... idunno
Author:  Jim Kirby [ Mon Mar 02, 2009 9:37 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Robbie O'Brien's French Polish Course
OK, the university is closed, the snow is accumulating. I could be shoveling ... naah - wait for the younger guys with stronger backs to drag themselves out of bed. Let's take pictures instead!

So far, I have done too many samples to a less than complete final state. I was trying to check out a number of pore fillers. So far, I have to say that I like the results with Z-Poxy better than anything else I tried (Behlens Pore-O-Pac, or Crystalac). I have two Z-Poxy samples below. The first is a piece of walnut with Z-Poxy sanded back to wood. This has had two cycles of finish building and leveling, and one side of it was polished yesterday during the course. I was using the Meguiars products sold by LMI - #17 Clear Plastic Cleaner followed by #10 Clear Plastic Polish. The side closest to the camera is polished with the Meguiars. It's hard to tell in the picture, but the finish is a little clearer after polishing.
The reflection is of the flourescent fixture over the workbench.

Attachment:
P1010145.JPG


The second picture is an orphan Padauk back plate. On this one, I sanded back the Z-Poxy and then did the thinned wash coat of Z-Poxy and alcohol to leave a continuous epoxy layer. The Padauk just comes alive under this layer. The FP shellac over this layer pretty much preserves the appearance of the initial epoxy coat - I wouldn't say that it is getting better or worse or even different looking.

One thing about this approach - there is, as far as I can tell, some refraction index effect between the Z-Poxy coat and the FP coat (and as Hesh and I have learned, these FP finishes are darned thin so I wouldn't say that there is a great difference in the thickness of the two). The sequence here is:

(1) wipe on the wash coat - this dries and leaves a somewhat unlevel surface.
(2) add the FP shellac layers
(3) then, at some point, level the shellac.

I think that what you are left with is something like:

____________________________________________________________________
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
____________________________________________________________________

where the top line is the leveled shellac, the squiggle is where the shellac and Z-Poxy meet, and the lower line is the wood. I think this squiggle makes it hard to get a really mirror-quality, undistorted reflected image off the finish. Some may see this as a drawback compared to a good nitro, urethane or polyester finish. In any event, it looks like it will be worth playing with ways to thin this wash coat out and get it on
super-level before FP'ing over it.

Attachment:
P1010144.JPG


The Padauk's other brethren are going to go on a modified dread guitar which is underway, so I was happy to see how lively the wood looks under finish.

Attachment:
P1010142.JPG


I've been so happy with the results of this course that I took out my first guitar that I tried a FP finish on (with decidedly un-special results) and sanded the back back to wood on Saturday, started new FP yesterday. It turns out the bridge is lifting a tiny wee bit on one corner, so I get to remove the bridge and work on the whole top with no bridge in the way. I hope to get this all done as a graduation test for the course.

Jim
Author:  Robbie O'Brien [ Mon Mar 02, 2009 9:54 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Robbie O'Brien's French Polish Course
By the pics you guys are posting it appears as if you have definitely learned the technique. The amazing thing is how fast you are able to do it. The class is only two hours long each Sunday afternoon and we are able to achieve these results in the class period. Great job guys! [:Y:]
Next week - sizing and antiquing techniques using egg whites, hide glue and colored shellacs. See you in class!
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