Official Luthiers Forum!

Many of you have been kind enough to help me make some decisions about re gluing the bridge on a vintage 1956 Gibson. Thank you.

Before I do the bridge re glue: There is a strip if finish 1/32"wide by 6" long (length of bridge) that is missing finish (bare wood at the bridge) on the top at the back (endpin side) of the bridge. There is also a 3/32" strip by 4" long of missing finish on the top at the front of the bridge.

I have no experience with finish work. My original thought was to let someone else do this little finish touch up for me, but I am considering giving it a go with some Behlen Nitrocellulose Stringed Instrument Lacquer tinted with Colortone Vintage Amber stain. I'll practice first on some scrap spruce to get a color match and use pipettes to measure quantities so I can repeat the color match. My question is this, assume I goof up and totally botch these two little strips of finish, can't they be easily removed and redone anyway? Or is there some reason that this can't be fairly easily undone?

I have read that finish touch-up work is difficult and I take that at face value. Nevertheless, with careful patient work I think I have a good shot at doing these two small strips of touch-up before I re glue the bridge. And if I am wrong and it goes badly, what have I lost but my time and the cost of the materials? Or am I missing some key piece of information?

I appreciate your help.

Ed

Do you mean the finish under the bridge is missing.... That is right. You want to glue wood to wood, not wood to finish. Just make sure the wood on both sides is clean and in good shape before you glue.

_________________
Brock Poling
Columbus, Ohio
http://www.polingguitars.com

No. I have bare wood, too much bare wood, where I will re-glue the bridge. I need to touch up (add finish) to the bare wood that will be in front of the bridge and behind the bridge (I'm moving the bridge up 1/32" to improve intonation). When the bridge pulled loose, it scrapped 1/16" of finish off with it. This needs to be touched up, before I re-glule the bridge as I understand it, so that it can easily be made smooth and polished.

My question in my original is really simple. Namely, since I am inexperienced, what is my risk in doing this touch up? I do not see anything that can't be fairly easily re-done by a qualified luthier if I botch the touch-up of two very small strips of finish (one 1/32"x6" and one 2/32"x4"). Or am I missing some critical piece of information that says I should not take this risk? (I may be overconfident, but frankly, I think I can do it to make it look somewhere between OK and good. But if I totally screw it up, can't it be scraped off and easily re-done by someone else? )

Ed

Photos are a great help. Glue the bridge and you're okay, I'd use Hot Hide Glue. That said, this will likely seal off the unfinished wood with glue. You could likely brush in some lacquer but it will not look perfect.

So going the other way, Finish the area before gluing the bridge as is the normal way gluing a new guitar. Then prepare the mating surface for gluing by scribing around the bridge and removing the lacquer. Either way, it's not likely to be perfect especially in light of said inexperience in finishing.

Take a good hard look at the guitar and see if it warrants perfect restoration of this one thing. You want whatever you do to not damage the guitar further. How about some pics?

_________________
http://www.dickeyguitars.com

I am obviously a poor communicator. I am NOT asking about how to glue the bridge. I am NOT asking about when to do the finish touch-up. I thought my question was independent of the need for pictures, but I did post them here if they are needed: viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=23131

I have bare wood right now before a bridge glue down. I will touch up two little strips of finish along the edge of this bare wood before I glue the bridge. My question was: What is my risk in screwing up the finish forever? (If I do a poor job on this touch up, can't it be easily scraped off and re-done correctly by another luthier? So, is not my only risk my time and materials? This is my only question in this post. I have asked other questions in other posts.)

Sincere thanks for the help. I am sorry if I have not communicated clearly.

Ed

The question is difficult to answer as it is rather rhetorical. The risk that you screw it up is highly likely since you have no touch up experience. But (and this is a big but) it is very difficult to touch up spruce without it "sticking out like a sore thumb". So I wouldn't worry about it too much. The touch up will probably not look good, but it will provide protection of the bare wood, which should be the main concern.

Although you can do it either way, I would recommend you glue the bridge on first. Then you won't have to worry about the new lacquer getting on the bridge footprint or getting damaged when the bridge is installed. The concern about not being able to level and buff the repaired area with the bridge in place is sort of moot because leveling and buffing the touch up will be difficult in any event in this particular location. I would glue the bridge, and then use a small artists brush and build up some lacquer as smoothly as possible to near the height of the existing finish. Then just leave it alone without any leveling or buffing.

Ed,
I think Barry is right, in all likelyhood, you will probably screw up the surrounding finish. Any repair finish job requires you to work a slightly larger area than just the small area you are trying to touch up. But since I have very limited repair experience, I'd plan on it looking bad when finished, just do the best I could. But I would first do the finish work and level and sand, then remove the overage where the bridge will go, then glue the bridge down. But then again, when I build a new instrument, I never tape off the bridge area, but rather remove the finish under the bridge after the finish is done. I find it easier to apply the finish and level sand without tape getting in the way. But that is just how I would do it, you will get many different opinions. But the bottom line is that you will have to mess up some the existing finish to finish this small area. But if it is just a small strip in front and back, it won't be too much of a mess up. Someone with any experience should be able to fix your mistakes. Good luck!

_________________
Tracy
http://www.luthiersuppliers.com

Any way you do it this will be a tough one.

It had not occured to me before, but actually there is some sense in doing the touch-up first. It would be a lot easier to get at the area and blend things in. You could mask off most of the bridge area, and do the touch-up. Then, when you're ready to glue the bridge down you can scribe around it in the normal manner, pull the tape, and scrape out to the scribe line.

That said, it's likely that the only way you'll get this to 'go away' is to refinish the whole top.

I've done touch-ups for years with alcohol soluble analine dyes and shellac or some other resin. The proceedure is to seal the wood with something clear, and then build up layers of color as glazes, working a little at a time, and sealing in successive layers of color as you go. I use a little water color pallet for this; it is white plastic and has wells that you can put the colors in to mix them with solvent. Then you dip out a bit of what you think you'll want with a brush and dab it on a spot on the palette, mixing it with other colors until it looks right. Then you apply it to the repair. If you make a mistake you can clean the stuff off and start over. Be really careful not to get any color into the wood; it will look 'flat', probably be 'way too dark, and you won't be able to get it off.

The big issue is blending the color in along the line going across the grain. If there's a dark line there it will show. You might need to scrape the finish along that line to feather it out, so that you can build up to it slowly. If the base color, on the early wood part of the grain, is a little on the light side, you can paint in grain lines that will obscure the crosswise line.

I just hope your color vision is better than mine.

Why not just make a new bridge a little oversized ?
TJK

_________________
It's not what you don't know that hurts you, it's what you do know that's wrong.

The existing orginal Brazilian bridge is in excellent condition. Since it is 1956 and a true vintage guitar, replacing the bridge would certainly lower the value of the guitar. The other option I see would be to put the existing bridge on it and do no touch-up around it at all. But since the touch-up total is literally less than 1 square inch, I believe that it will not hurt the value and may help, expecially since it seals the top wood and will (hopefully) improve cosmetics.

Ed

Coming from a player, not a builder-- leave it alone unless it a) structurally inhibits adherance of the bridge or b) bothers you enough to keep you up night after night for years on end. If I'd listened to my own advice here, (with the exception of a refinish done 30 years ago) I'd have a pristine 1950 D-28 instead of one with new nut, saddle, fingerboard, bridgeplate, and bridge. Fixing something that ain't broke is a recipe for disaster.

If you are really concerned with the vintage value of the guitar then you should have an expert repair it.

Frank Ford has some touch up techniques on his frets.com website if your concern is not too great.

As was already said, if it is a question of damaging the value of a classic, have a pro do it or leave it alone. On the other hand, if it isn't going to be a value issue, you could (very gently) sand around where the bridge will be to fade the finish out from what will be new to what is original. This could be done in an artistic way (like a mini-star burst radiating from the bridge) or very carefully to be almost unnoticeable (like auto repair folks feather out a paint repair into the old paint).

Best of luck...and post pics!

-Matthew