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José Romanillos: problems&solutions of neckjoints Rare Video
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Author:  guitargourmet01 [ Fri Aug 14, 2009 8:34 am ]
Post subject:  José Romanillos: problems&solutions of neckjoints Rare Video
Good morning folks,

I think I have some nice brain-food for the weekend.
In 2005 I spend over a week with José Romanillos in Sigüenza, Spain. José had decided to finish up a project he started a while ago. Several years ago he had promised his Barcelona-based friend and luthier Josep Melo (www.meloguitars.com) one of his guitars. José still had the unfinished project in his workshop and took his tools out one more time. We shot over 25 hours of footage. It will take a while to process the footage, but I will post some highlights on the go.

Here is José talking about issues he had with body - neck joints and how he solved them.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Z51O6yn1m8

Have a great weekend,
Holger

(Please note - the linked video clip does not endorse any kind of product. I am not trying to sell you anything. I just hate to see this footage sit in a vault...)
Author:  David LaPlante [ Fri Aug 14, 2009 9:04 am ]
Post subject:  Re: José Romanillos: problems&solutions of neckjoints Rare Video
Thanks for sharing this Holger, it brings back many pleasant memories of my time in Siguenza at Jose's course.
The fact that the wedges add a lot of strength to the joint through the introduction of long grain into the structure isn't the only advantage to this construction. It becomes quickly apparent once you've made this joint that it's quite a bit easier than the thin slot which needs very accurate cutting.
The two wedge design also allows you to adjust the accuracy and tightness of the fit with the wedges alone.
It also may not be clear on the video that there is no glue used between the front face of the sides and the back surface of the heel, just between the inner block the wedges and inside face of the side.

http://www.guitarsbydavidlaplante.com
Author:  Fred Tellier [ Fri Aug 14, 2009 9:20 am ]
Post subject:  Re: José Romanillos: problems&solutions of neckjoints Rare Video
These are all interesting video clips, I checked the web site and was wondering about how could one get the DVD's.

Fred
Author:  schrammguitars [ Fri Aug 14, 2009 10:32 am ]
Post subject:  Re: José Romanillos: problems&solutions of neckjoints Rare Video
I've built around 40+ guitars with the single wedge design. With my jig set-up it only takes a few minutes to cut everything and fit the sides. I'll have to try the double wedge design.

I'm anxious for more Romanillos video! Thanks Holger.
Author:  Edward Taylor [ Fri Aug 14, 2009 1:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: José Romanillos: problems&solutions of neckjoints Rare Video
Thanks for posting! I love your videos, very informational and inspiring.
Author:  WaddyThomson [ Fri Aug 14, 2009 3:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: José Romanillos: problems&solutions of neckjoints Rare Video
All I learned about the double wedge design, I learned from Shawn, David LaPlante, Joshua French and Colin Symonds, all of whom are familiar with the Romanillos technique. I posted this over at the AG Forum, but here are a few pictures of the wedges going in on my first guitar. This part of the discussion was not in the video, or at least, my take on it.
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Author:  Colin S [ Fri Aug 14, 2009 4:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: José Romanillos: problems&solutions of neckjoints Rare Video
Oh yes I always use the double wedge, in terms of ease of use and fit of the end result it really is a no brainer idea.

I just cut by hand and chisel, it helps if you ensure that the slots match one of your chisel sizes, I use 10mm.

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Wedge trial fit 2.JPG


Colin
Author:  Edward Taylor [ Fri Aug 14, 2009 6:11 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: José Romanillos: problems&solutions of neckjoints Rare Video
I still dont understand why it would help minimize damage to the instrument if dropped. I see why it would be much easier to use though.
Author:  John A [ Wed Jan 11, 2012 5:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: José Romanillos: problems&solutions of neckjoints Rare Video
Does anyone have any tips in making the wedges themselves ?

I know it is pretty simple - but I wonder how others are doing it -
Author:  WaddyThomson [ Wed Jan 11, 2012 8:11 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: José Romanillos: problems&solutions of neckjoints Rare Video
I just made a little step block(half the thickness of the slot) for cutting tapers, and use that to cut a piece, just over-sized, in half, on the diagonal, on the band saw then sand smooth. Result - 2 wedges! Use a push block! wow7-eyes
Author:  John A [ Wed Jan 11, 2012 9:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: José Romanillos: problems&solutions of neckjoints Rare Video
Waddy - this post was directed at you - since through your pics you convinced me to try this joint.
So do you have pics of the little jig you made ? I spent a good hour today cutting and sanding and the wedges still don't fit perfect like yours in the pictures. Although the fit is tight and even though it is not perfect I have a feeling it is stronger than the regular slots.
Author:  Matt Shumway [ Wed Jan 11, 2012 10:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: José Romanillos: problems&solutions of neckjoints Rare Video
guitargourmet01 wrote:
We shot over 25 hours of footage. It will take a while to process the footage, but I will post some highlights on the go.




It would be fantastic to see it all!

Inspired by Waddy, I tried one of these on my second guitar and loved how much easier it was. No idea what kind of real benefits it has other than ease, but it has my vote for that alone.
Author:  WaddyThomson [ Wed Jan 11, 2012 10:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: José Romanillos: problems&solutions of neckjoints Rare Video
No magic! I just fiddle with them till they fit. Sand some here and some there. I'll try to take a picture of the little jig, if that'll help. It's just a little block with a cut out like you would use for tapering a fingerboard using a fence.
Author:  Jim_H [ Wed Jan 11, 2012 11:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: José Romanillos: problems&solutions of neckjoints Rare Video
Matt Shumway wrote:
It would be fantastic to see it all!


There is an entire series of videos with Mr. Romanillos on the guitar gourmet video channel
http://www.youtube.com/user/guitargourmet
Author:  Alexandru Marian [ Thu Jan 12, 2012 5:48 am ]
Post subject:  Re: José Romanillos: problems&solutions of neckjoints Rare Video
I make my wedges by forming a cedar block slightly larger than the slot, then I carefully slice it with a Japanese saw. Then with a plane adjust them to fit. I actually have been thinking about trying a single wedge for a while now :)
Author:  ernie [ Thu Jan 12, 2012 9:27 am ]
Post subject:  Re: José Romanillos: problems&solutions of neckjoints Rare Video
Personally , I don/t buy into this wedge system, Has the author road tested the joint a few times, by dropping the guitar neck on a test sample?/ While an excellent system for the hand builder, am wondering how long these slip joints or wedged systems last . Or what future repairs might be in order . My 2 cents.
Author:  WaddyThomson [ Thu Jan 12, 2012 11:04 am ]
Post subject:  Re: José Romanillos: problems&solutions of neckjoints Rare Video
ernie wrote:
Personally , I don/t buy into this wedge system, Has the author road tested the joint a few times, by dropping the guitar neck on a test sample?/ While an excellent system for the hand builder, am wondering how long these slip joints or wedged systems last . Or what future repairs might be in order . My 2 cents.


Jose Romanillos has been using this joint for years. He modified it from a single wedge joint found in older instruments he had studied, as I recall. The joint holds the sides much more strongly than the standard slot cut in the neck for a Spanish Food build. The side is not glued into the slot, only the wedges are glued. It is very strong. The beauty is that it can be disassembled if necessary, by chiseling out the wedges, without damaging the sides, in a repair.
Author:  David LaPlante [ Thu Jan 12, 2012 11:14 am ]
Post subject:  Re: José Romanillos: problems&solutions of neckjoints Rare Video
Though Jose' doesn't actually say this, I think his point is that the joint is strengthened substantially by the long grain of the wedges glued into the cross grain of the neck/heel/block and thus less likely to crack if stressed.
Author:  senunkan [ Thu Jan 12, 2012 11:55 am ]
Post subject:  Re: José Romanillos: problems&solutions of neckjoints Rare Video
Interesting! I use the single wedge for my 2nd build.
Is there any advantage of a double wedge over single wedge?
I read that with either method you still need to fiddle it around to make it fit, so isn't the single wedge easier to fit over the double wedge, as you only need to plane/sand one piece instead of 2. idunno
Author:  crazicarl [ Thu Jan 12, 2012 12:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: José Romanillos: problems&solutions of neckjoints Rare Video
I think I'll try this on my challenge build as I've been wanting to play with the Spanish Heel.

It would seem pretty simple to make the double wedge . . . one block, twice the width of the wedge you want plus with width of your saw. Make one angle on the block. Cut it in two pieces and you have two perfectly mating wedges. If they are too long, you just trim them back. Am I over-simplifying this?
Author:  Alexandru Marian [ Thu Jan 12, 2012 5:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: José Romanillos: problems&solutions of neckjoints Rare Video
Adam, that actually sounds very smart and simple, how come I didn't think of it :D I'll try this next time.

Sen, yeah that's what I was thinking, one wedge would simplify the fiddling-to-fit, but if the above goes well.... plus that cleanly chiseling the bottom of a wedged slot of not as easy as with a parallel one.

Contrary to the grain, I put glue on both faces of the side as well. I want it to be nuclear blast proof and don't give a rusted nickel on future repairs. Joke aside, that bit of fishglue in there is mostly sucked by the endgrain so a few careful taps once the wedges are gone should take it apart with ease.
Author:  Michael.N. [ Thu Jan 12, 2012 5:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: José Romanillos: problems&solutions of neckjoints Rare Video
crazicarl wrote:
I think I'll try this on my challenge build as I've been wanting to play with the Spanish Heel.

It would seem pretty simple to make the double wedge . . . one block, twice the width of the wedge you want plus with width of your saw. Make one angle on the block. Cut it in two pieces and you have two perfectly mating wedges. If they are too long, you just trim them back. Am I over-simplifying this?


No. Whether single or double wedge you have to allow some excess for final fitting. Straight from a saw cut it's very unlikely that the wedges will press the sides against the heel for it's full length. The wedge joint makes things a little easier, allowing adjustments to be made. Romanillos got the idea from Baroque Guitar construction, it's a rather old but very practical method of securing the sides.
The more usual hand sawn slots can easily finish out of alignment, with little scope for correcting matters. If you can find a method for accurately sawing the slots, then it's a quicker method than using the wedges. The sides can always be reinforced with a buttress.
Author:  douglas ingram [ Fri Jan 13, 2012 9:48 am ]
Post subject:  Re: José Romanillos: problems&solutions of neckjoints Rare Video
I've been using the wedge system, too. Its easy enough that its a no-brainer choice. Whether it adds strength or not does not even need to be part of the argument. If it does add strength, then that's a bonus.
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