Official Luthiers Forum!

Anyone ever finished an entire guitar with Zinser's Shellac? How does it spray? How would you compare the end result with say Nitro? Buffability? How's the hardness compared with flake shellac? Thanks...

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tim...
http://www.mcknightguitars.com

I use it alot.Mainly for sealing.It sprays well and goes under my nitro finishes.I have also french polished with it as well.I like it alot.Like any shellac,it gets harder with age.

I like it too.

I assume it is about Seal Coat, their de-waxed shellac? I wouldn't use the other products for anything on a guitar.
Seal Coat works very well, is clear and dries as hard as any de-waxed shellac does. It can be sprayed out of the can, not sure what the mix ratio is, but it is not too thin.

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Laurent Brondel
West Paris, Maine - USA
http://www.laurentbrondel.com/

I seal with it. It sprays well. It's not any harder than flake shellac. I've never used it for a final finish.

I'm talking about Zinser "Seal Coat". It's wax free. I believe their "regular" shellac contains some wax.

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I didn't mean to say it, but I meant what I said.
http://www.brackettinstruments.com/

Tim...Lots of folks who French Polish have gone to the wax-free product in place of the flakes and have achieved excellent results. I personally have FP'd 4 guitars as long ago as 3 years and the finish is quite hard and still beautiful.

One word of caution, however is that this finish is FAR more delicate than most other finishes. Shellac is not sweat resistant and the areas where skin contacts it continuously will show wear and mottling. This can easily be repaired by sanding back and re-applying shellac but most customers will probably not be so inclined, nor capable of doing so. It is also not alcohol resistant, nor as ding-resistant as the synthetic finishes.

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JJ
Napa, CA
http://www.DonohueGuitars.com

Thanks for the feedback guys. I have FP'd several gits and tops (using only flakes) and enjoy the process... up to a point. I was just curious if it was possible to achieve a "similar" sprayed & buffed finish to that of hand applied FP using either of the Zinsser products? Have any of you ever power buffed the Zinser product(s)?

FWIW, I believe the Bulls Eye Shellac is a 3# cut and the Seal Coat is a 2# cut.

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tim...
http://www.mcknightguitars.com

The "Seal coat" is #2 cut. It also says "wax free" on the can. I believe the "shellac" either says it contains wax, or doesn't say "wax free". (isn't wax bad????) I've got to go to Lowes later today. I'll check and see. The cans are dated so get fresh stuff. It's supposed to have a 3 year shelf life. The freshest stuff in usually near the back of the shelf, at least at my local Lowes.

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I didn't mean to say it, but I meant what I said.
http://www.brackettinstruments.com/

IME yes, spraying light coats and following a similar schedule as for, say, a nitro lacquer finish. It buffs beautifully, as long as the buffer speed is not too high and one does not lean too hard and too long on the same spot and avoid corners.
Because shellac dries very fast, the tendency is to want to spray too much finish too often. As long as the preceding coats have cured enough, there shouldn't be any trouble. With the caveat that shellac is more on the soft side, but everybody knows that…

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Laurent Brondel
West Paris, Maine - USA
http://www.laurentbrondel.com/

I called Zinsser, which is owned by parent company Rust-o-leum BTW and here is what I found out:

Zinsser Bull’s-eye Shellac:
- Has wax in product
- 3# cut
- Contains denatured alcohol
- Cannot be sprayed unless thinned 10% … but … this will make the VOC’s to high to comply with EPA standards.
- Best product to seal wood tannin or knot bleeding. Wax in shellac is the element that provides best sealing properties.
- Best product to seal oily woods & to prevent fish eyes in final finish.
- Can be top coated with lacquers or oil varnish
- Cannot be top coated with polys, urethanes or catalyzed finishes. To top coat with these newer finishes you must seal Bull’s-eye Shellac with Zinsser Seal Coat then top coat with finish of your choice. No abrading is needed before top coating but can be lightly scuffed.
- Gloss rating, 85 gloss scale
- Available in clear or amber
- Zinsser used to make Bull’s-eye FP product but it was not EPA friendly. They no longer make it.


Zinsser Seal Coat Shellac:
- De-waxed product
- 2# cut
- Contains denatured alcohol
- Can be sprayed straight from can
- Semi-gloss rating, 65 – 75 gloss scale


Notes on both products:
- Can be buffed in a few days
- Can be wet sanded before buffing
- Achieves maximum hardness in 14 days
- Once fully cured both products can be damaged by water or sweat
- Spray schedule:
o 1 – 1-1/2 hours between coats
o No scuffing between coats required
o 3 – 4 coats per day
o Clean up with DA

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tim...
http://www.mcknightguitars.com

Tim I have used Target Coatings waterborne shellac with great success. Sprays easily and best of all cleans up with water.
I also used it as a tinted medium for sunbursts sprayed with an airbrush. I have recommended this before but I don't see it mentioned very often. I know Mario has used it in the past. I love the stuff.
check it out.


http://www.targetcoatings.com/shop/products/UltraSeal_WB_Shellac_Sealer_Amber-170-10.html

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Beautiful and unusual tone woods at a reasonable price.
http://www.rctonewoods.com/RCT_Store
The Zootman
1109 Military Rd.
Kenmore, NY 14217
(716) 874-1498

Tim, Thanks for that info! Very helpful details.

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David Malicky

Can the Target coatings be used inside the house ? I was hoping I could french polish insde the house while the kids sleep.

Today I tried sealing my rosette with Zinsser - but the smell of the DA got to me pretty quickly insde the house. I have a small office where I was planning to do this.

Would I be correct in saying the Target water bourne sealer would be safe for inside use ?


If that does not work - then I will have to go with flakes and some grain alcohol - I assume this would be safe inside the house -right ?

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It's this new idea from recent decades that everyone gets a participation award. - MUX

John,

It is my understanding that dissolved flakes in grain alcohol is as safe as it gets in terms of finishes. I believe this is used as a protective coating on candy. I can't speak to the Target waterborne shellac.

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Burton
http://www.legeytinstruments.com
Brookline, MA.

Tim;
are you asking about the spray can -or tin can ?
Look at the ingriedients of the spray can shellac!

I mix & spray my own.
filter it so it does not have pieces that will clog the tip.
That way I know the mix and color .
I can vary it as I need too.
www.shellac.net
Get the good stuff!
Mike
How's the wife?

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Mike Collins

I am currently spraying Zinser seal-coat on some shelving to practice and dial in thinning and gun settings.
I'm using a 1mm tip on a hvlp gun. The 2lb cut out of the can I found too thick to lay down flat as it dried. Thinning with denatured alcahol 50/50 and it goes on thin and smooth as glass. might try 75/25.
I have a 3 year old guitar that I sprayed w/supper blond flakes in denatured, wet sanded and buffed out. It took a great shine but the buffing was much slower than nitro. had to sand up to 2000g 3m Imperial at least. The next coarser Menzurna from 18 might work better to start but I don't have it or the wheels to try it.
Although it dries to the touch really fast I believe full depth drying takes much longer than Nitro. resisting recoating too soon I think is key.
I am also interested in others experience spraying Shellac for build.