As long as it wasn't BRW !
I am a long way off being in that privileged position anyway, giving them away is my only option.
John
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| Author: | jfmckenna [ Thu Jul 22, 2010 8:17 am ] |
| Post subject: | Would you build a free guitar if |
Say some with significant notoriety took a liking to your guitars and wanted one. This person is of such significance that surely if he owned and played one of your guitars it could potentially launch your career as a luthier. Think, Henderson/Clapton, Fernandez/Segovia you know that sort of thing. I'm just curious to know what fellow luthiers think. I've given really good deals to some of my local guitar teachers and in turn it has payed off as a few of their students have purchased some of my guitars at full price. I imagine that a guitar in the hands of a master would be a huge business move for any aspiring luthier. |
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| Author: | segovia [ Thu Jul 22, 2010 8:24 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Would you build a free guitar if |
As long as it wasn't BRW ! I am a long way off being in that privileged position anyway, giving them away is my only option. John |
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| Author: | jaguarguy [ Thu Jul 22, 2010 8:58 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Would you build a free guitar if |
Henderson never gave one to Clapton - he had to wait along with everyone else and pay for it. ![[clap]](./images/smilies/smiley32.gif "adulations")
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| Author: | jfmckenna [ Thu Jul 22, 2010 9:01 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Would you build a free guitar if |
Ya I know that about WH just noting the client/luthier relationship. Maybe not the best example. |
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| Author: | Robbie_McD [ Thu Jul 22, 2010 9:04 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Would you build a free guitar if |
segovia wrote: giving them away is my only option.  Too funny John, I can relate to that!!!!
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| Author: | JJ Donohue [ Thu Jul 22, 2010 9:15 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Would you build a free guitar if |
Think about it...if he likes a guitar so much that it would inspire, enhance, and improve his performance then it would be logical for him to have it...even if he had to pay for the guitar. If you give it to him then neither he nor you can honestly say that he chose to invest in your craft. I would try to keep things on an honest and genuine level. You might offer to give him a referral fee for everyone who he sends your way and commissions a guitar. There's a dark side as well. I don't have personal experience with this but...I have heard from reliable sources of notorious players who convince builders into giving them guitars and who later sell them and keep the proceeds. This would do more harm than good IMO. |
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| Author: | Shane Neifer [ Thu Jul 22, 2010 9:46 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Would you build a free guitar if |
I wouldn't give the guitar away. I have some high end customers who have "signature" musicians that may get a very good deal to their artists in exchange for committed endorsement of these guitars. Otherwise the price is full. So in effect it is a bit of a barter and the maker is really just funding advertising through their labour. So maybe 50% of full price at the most. Shane |
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| Author: | Brock Poling [ Thu Jul 22, 2010 9:49 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Would you build a free guitar if |
It depends. If I like this person's music. If I like them as a person. How we get along -- is it a relationship, or just a "free guitar"? What happens when they are done with it (do I get it back?) etc. Under the right circumstances I would do it. But if I were making a list of people I would give a guitar to, it would be a pretty short. And in truth I would probably do it more because I admired their music and wanted to personally feel connected to their future work by knowing that my guitar might be the one to have an iconic song written on it or to be their constant companion. Promotion is nice, but to me that is probably a secondary benefit. |
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| Author: | Haans [ Thu Jul 22, 2010 9:50 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Would you build a free guitar if |
No. |
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| Author: | Link Van Cleave [ Thu Jul 22, 2010 9:57 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Would you build a free guitar if |
Hans, Your so verbose. You need to learn to be more succinct in your posts.  Link |
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| Author: | alan stassforth [ Thu Jul 22, 2010 10:21 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Would you build a free guitar if |
once again, brock says the right thing. for me, it would depend on how big the name is. i wouldn't give it to somebody i didn't know, but would give them a good deal if i liked their music. it would also depend on my inventory. and how long it took to make. |
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| Author: | Parser [ Thu Jul 22, 2010 10:53 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Would you build a free guitar if |
I think it depends on what your goals as a builder are. If you are trying to market your stuff nationally or globally then by all means YES. This is flat out the best marketing that you can do as a guitar builder. If you are a hobby builder and aren't stressed out about making more sales or anything, then I guess it is more of a personal decision - i.e., do you like their music, etc.. PRS guitars really didn't pick up steam until Santana started playing them. Putting nice guitars in the hands of renowned artists is one of the things that Paul does best IMO. The guy is a marketing genius (and it doesn't hurt that they make great instruments). Trev |
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| Author: | Haans [ Thu Jul 22, 2010 11:08 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Would you build a free guitar if |
Link Van Cleave wrote: Hans, Your so verbose. You need to learn to be more succinct in your posts. Link Waddya want, a book? 
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| Author: | bluescreek [ Thu Jul 22, 2010 11:16 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Would you build a free guitar if |
No If you are in business , you can't afford to do things that do not make money . I was contacted by a nationally known musician that wanted a specific guitar. I quoted a price and he stated "well do you know who I am ", I said yes , then doubled the price. I found out I was one of many builders he contacted. Some use their name for a free guitar and most of these "guys" are under contract to big named companies.That means that they admit to using another instrument . Even CF Martin does not give them to the artist. I have given some away to missionaries that used them for their work. |
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| Author: | Brock Poling [ Thu Jul 22, 2010 11:48 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Would you build a free guitar if |
bluescreek wrote: No If you are in business , you can't afford to do things that do not make money . That seems kind of short sighted to me. If you are giving a guitar away in hopes of getting promotion that is really a marketing investment, and that is a valid business expense. The question is, is it a worthwhile investment? I am sure that depends on the artist and how much of an advocate they are for your work. The plug Jackson Browne gives Roy McAlister in one of his concerts is worth a ton (there is a recording of it on the web). You just get the sense that Jackson really has a high opinion of Roy and his work. Regardless of whether he bought the guitar or got it for free (I have no idea), that is the kind of endorsement that can elevate the visibility of your work. |
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| Author: | Mike Collins [ Thu Jul 22, 2010 1:04 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Would you build a free guitar if |
I have given one away to a world known player that uses the guitar exclusively & gives me credit on the web and the c.d.s BUT I've known this player for 12 years & we have spent allot of time getting to know each other. It was a surprise gift from me-there was no asking from the player for a free guitar! But our conversations revealed to me what was needed in a special guitar that was to be a gift. I think it's important to have some sort of relationship & let the player know if it's not already that you would like some credit or such for the gift. Kind of like lobbying! Mike |
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| Author: | StevenWheeler [ Thu Jul 22, 2010 1:06 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Would you build a free guitar if |
I think John and Hanns are right on track. Give for free? Not a chance. If an artist was to sign an endorsment agreement with with free insturments as his payment that would be a good bussiness agreement in my mind. That agreement would include stage use, mentions in interviews and notations on liner notes at the very least. Steve |
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| Author: | woody b [ Thu Jul 22, 2010 1:55 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Would you build a free guitar if |
Haans wrote: No. You took the words (or actually word) right out of my mouth. I loaned one to a good musician who's really popular around here for a month. He's now bought 2 from me for full price. |
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| Author: | Rick Davis [ Thu Jul 22, 2010 2:06 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Would you build a free guitar if |
Musicians are lousy marketers, for the most part. A well-known musician called me years ago to buy a guitar. I offered a significant discount if he would promote my guitars. To his credit, he was honest and told me that he didn't do that, that the guitar would be mainly his home/studio instrument, and that he never thought to thank makers publicly. I thanked him for the lesson and gave him a break in honor of his artistry (and honesty). Now, I sell instruments for a price -- the same to everyone. If a performer buys one, I tell him or her that I'll pay for promotional help. If they carry my business cards, put my logo on CD's, send a photo of them with the instrument and a nice quote for web or print use, then I'll send them a check. Seems to work. Some do, most forget and just enjoy the guitar. Also, I am convinced that unless you sell to one of the most recognized names (Clapton), it won't help much. People may be mildly impressed that someone plays your guitar but for the most part, that is only a small part of making the sale. So it isn't worth giving away too much time and effort to get the endorsements. |
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| Author: | Bill Greene [ Thu Jul 22, 2010 2:44 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Would you build a free guitar if |
Yes. For the right artist, with an understanding of when/where/how often he/she would play it, I would certainly build a free guitar for them, and do my best to maintain it to their level of need. I would personally consider that nothing more than a portion of my normal marketing budget. The right performer can sell many instruments over time, and ultimately lower the cost of acquisition on new clients to a very respectable level. |
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| Author: | dunwell [ Thu Jul 22, 2010 3:05 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Would you build a free guitar if |
I'm with Hans. In fact I tend to sort of invert this equation. The one bigname-brand guy I built for I just gave him a bit less than the same discount as I would to a store just because I like him and his music. But I have in fact given away some guitars to folks that would never be able to afford one, again because I really like their music and skills. Those have been some of the best word-of-mouth advertising I've ever gotten, way more than from the Bigname guy. Alan D. |
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| Author: | Robert Renick [ Thu Jul 22, 2010 3:53 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Would you build a free guitar if |
I agree with the Bill Greene wrote: a portion of my normal marketing budget Put your marketing hat on, assemble your team of marketing sharks (a round table of your kids stuffed animals will do), and approach it that way, for the dollars spent, what do you need to get in return, and how else can you spend those dollars as an alternative. Perhaps for the same $$ you can have a color ad in a guitar mag for a year. If it is an endorsement deal, make the deal include what you need, and I love the idea Rick Davis wrote: then I'll send them a check . I would specify as part of the deal: credit and logo on an album, signed live photo in a known venue with the guitar very visible, you tube video, So and so playing his JFM at Madison Square Garden, perhaps space on his merch booth for your pamphlets, logo and link from the artists web site, and facebook site. Think of how to build a campaign around this and maximize exposure to the right clients, Or put on your music lovers tie die hat and revel in the wealth of music that your guitar is making, dive into the dumpster for food, and run through some neighborhood sprinklers for a shower, happy and care free. The big challenge we all face: Resources vs. Resourcefulness Use them wisely, Rob |
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| Author: | Pat Hawley [ Thu Jul 22, 2010 5:37 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Would you build a free guitar if |
I would give a guitar to Jimmy Buffett if I thought he'd want one! Pat |
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| Author: | bluescreek [ Thu Jul 22, 2010 5:40 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Would you build a free guitar if |
I am doing this professionally and I will tell you that I am busy. I will poe this questions , How many here are professional builders and how many gave a guitar away ? I think you will see very low numbers on #2. I know many pro builders . Not any gave away anything to a pro player. If you have a good product , and they want it , they will buy it . |
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| Author: | Parser [ Thu Jul 22, 2010 6:06 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Would you build a free guitar if |
I guess this is another area where the factory shops differ from small builders. The big name shops go after the big name players pretty adamantly. They have artist relations folks whose job it is to chase these guys down and try to work something out with them. They'll get custom instruments....handmade stuff...custom setups...the whole 9 yards. These folks are in business to sell a lot of guitars, and most buyers want what their favorite musicians play. Personally, I've thought about donating one (if they'll accept it... (c:) to Jack Johnson. My wife and I really appreciate how all the proceeds from his recent tours are going to charities. That's pretty cool. I don't exactly have any extra's right now though. Trev |
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