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Sound Hole Braces
http://luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=30657		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  John Killin [ Mon Jan 10, 2011 1:42 pm ]
Post subject:  Sound Hole Braces
I am working on an L-00 following the Grelliar plan. I scaled the overall size of the guitar down, but am following the plan for the bracing making sure I’m referencing the critical positions (bridge location) to the scale.

I think I am about there with carving the braces. I’m wondering about the sound hole braces though. These are the tallest braces on the guitar. The Grelliar plan has them at 20mm. I don’t recall seeing braces like this before. I am toying with the idea of cutting them down a bit, but really I have no reason to, or not to, as I’m sort of winging it on this first one.

Here are some pics of my braces so far.

Attachment:
Bracing.jpg
Author:  TonyKarol [ Mon Jan 10, 2011 1:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Sound Hole Braces
I would ... mine are only 1/8 tall, no scallops .. simple support thats all.
Author:  Alain Moisan [ Mon Jan 10, 2011 1:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Sound Hole Braces
They are tall for sure, but I don't think it will heart anything if you leave them as so.

Although Tony (and others) may differ in opinion, I believe the soundhole braces do more than just reinforce the soundhole. Thay also can prevent the top from collapsing in this area, where the neck and fretboard put a lot of pressure on the top.

My 2 cents...
Author:  JRHall [ Mon Jan 10, 2011 2:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Sound Hole Braces
Are you sure you didn't overlook a decimal point? Like 2.0 mm?
Author:  SteveG [ Mon Jan 10, 2011 5:13 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Sound Hole Braces
No, that's not right. If you take a look at the construction photos on Christophe Grellier's site they're much smaller. Must be a typo.

http://www.grellier.fr/build.php?page=33&lang=en

Click on the pic that shows the bracing.

cheers
Author:  Daniel Minard [ Mon Jan 10, 2011 5:36 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Sound Hole Braces
I would knock them down to around 1/8". They will be in the way if you ever want to install a pickup with soundhole mounted controls.
Author:  John Killin [ Mon Jan 10, 2011 6:06 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Sound Hole Braces
Well I thought it looked odd and I hadn't seen others like this. They do look a bit like some sort of cooling fin. None of the L-00 pics I have seen of originals have them like that.

Here is a pic of this brace on the plan just to prove I'm not totally crazy (at least in this case).

Attachment:
Sound Hole Brace Plan.jpg


Mine are still thick compared to what is in the plan so they need work either way. I think I’m going to take them down some. Now for discussion sake, if I left them what sort of impact would there be in having a monster brace in the top here? I know I’d get added support, but how would this impact sound? Or is this area mostly structural?

Oh and for installing a pickup, is 1\8th the maximum thickness I can have here? I doubt if I will be doing that, but this seems like the time to plan for the eventual future. Since I'm going to deviate from the plan here, what is the general range for this brace? Cumpiano has the brace ad 3/8" tall tapering to 1/8".

Thanks,

John
Author:  Tim L [ Mon Jan 10, 2011 7:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Sound Hole Braces
FWIW on Kerry Chars' drawing taken directly from a 1937 L-00 the soundhole braces are 1/2" tall.

Tim
Author:  Tom West [ Mon Jan 10, 2011 8:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Sound Hole Braces
There is a big hole there...!!! Braces at 1/8" are too thin in my opinion except for the bottom one that runs from one arm of the X brace to the other arm.The other two I make 1/4" wide by 5/16" high. The ones you show can certainly be trimmed.
Tom
Author:  Christophe Grellier [ Tue Jan 11, 2011 1:30 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Sound Hole Braces
Hello John,

There is no error on the plan and these 2 soundhole braces are really that tall on the guitar.
But I cannot see any good reason ( but ... well ... this is Gibson, so there is maybe NO reason ;-) ) to make these braces that size so I think that you can make them much lower; and this is what I do when I make a L-00.

Christophe
Author:  SteveG [ Tue Jan 11, 2011 2:19 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Sound Hole Braces
:shock: Must've been a bump in traffic to Christophe's site. Wow, there you have it from Monsieur Grellier himself, the one who drew the plans up. Wow again, and thanks, too. [clap]

Kinda wish I'd worded my reply less strongly.... [xx(] :mrgreen:
Author:  Christophe Grellier [ Wed Jan 12, 2011 4:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Sound Hole Braces
Hi Steve,

That's OK. I think I would have given the same kind of answer that you gave.
Just to show you that I am not loosing my mind, here is a shot of this stange huge brace.

Best regards,
Author:  CharlieT [ Wed Jan 12, 2011 6:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Sound Hole Braces
Christophe - I've said this before but it bears repeating...thank you very much for making your plans available. It is very generous of you, and is much appreciated! [clap]

Charlie
Author:  Ken Mitchell [ Wed Jan 12, 2011 7:11 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Sound Hole Braces
CharlieT wrote:
Christophe - I've said this before but it bears repeating...thank you very much for making your plans available. It is very generous of you, and is much appreciated! [clap]

Charlie



That forum member speaks my mind! Your plans are at the heart of a couple of my shapes, Christophe. Merci infiniment!

Ken
Author:  DannyV [ Wed Jan 12, 2011 7:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Sound Hole Braces
Christophe Grellier wrote:
Hello John,

There is no error on the plan and these 2 soundhole braces are really that tall on the guitar.
But I cannot see any good reason ( but ... well ... this is Gibson, so there is maybe NO reason ;-) ) to make these braces that size so I think that you can make them much lower; and this is what I do when I make a L-00.

Christophe


I also would like to thank you Christophe. My friend recently had a few copies of the L-00 plan you drew up printed and gave me a copy. It's very kind of you to allow others to use them. They are very well done. I've just made the mould up and man it's a great shape.

Thanks again.

All The Best,
Danny
Author:  Robbie_McD [ Wed Jan 12, 2011 9:11 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Sound Hole Braces
Hello Christophe,

I will chime in too - I reference 3 of your drawings constantly.
Excellent work, many thanks!!!!!

Rob
Author:  John Arnold [ Wed Jan 12, 2011 11:45 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Sound Hole Braces
I believe it is the early L-00's than have the tall soundhole braces. They will prevent the top from sinking, but I have seen a lot come loose on the ends, particularly if the pickguard has shrunk.
Back when I built my version of that guitar, I used 1/4" square braces there.
I built this one in 1983.

Image
Author:  John Killin [ Thu Jan 13, 2011 9:26 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Sound Hole Braces
Christophe,

Thanks for taking time to respond and thanks for making these plans available. The picture makes me feel like I was on the right track. But I do see an opportunity to deviate from the plan. Thanks for the guidance everyone. I’m going to take these braces down to probably about 1\2” at the peak. My low point is at 3/8” now so I’ll leave that where it is.

John
Author:  John Arnold [ Thu Jan 13, 2011 6:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Sound Hole Braces
Filippo,
Yes, it is curly ambrosia maple. The back, sides, and pickguard were all cut from one small board. The pickguard is solid wood about 1mm thick. The black edge is dyed veneer, the same as the body purfling. I glued it to the edge of the pickguard.
My early guitars all had under-finish pickguards, attached to the bare top with epoxy. It worked equally well with celluloid guards. I have not experienced any shrinkage or curling problems.

Image

The top is Engelmann, cut from 1 X 12 shelving board. The binding is curly sugar maple.

Image

Image

Image

Image
Author:  Darrel Friesen [ Thu Jan 13, 2011 7:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Sound Hole Braces
Beautiful looking guitar John. You and friends take care of things a lot better than I do. That guitar still looks new!
Author:  John Arnold [ Fri Jan 14, 2011 11:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Sound Hole Braces
Quote:
You and friends take care of things a lot better than I do. That guitar still looks new!

It has sat in the case for most of its life. It is a great guitar, but I built a classical (Fleta pattern) and an OM a year or two later, and those were the guitars I played the most.
Author:  WudWerkr [ Sat Jan 15, 2011 2:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Sound Hole Braces
Absolutely Beautifull work ! I love it ! [:Y:] [:Y:] [clap] [clap]
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