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Alternative (non-traditional) materials
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Author:  Moobox [ Tue Jan 11, 2011 6:00 am ]
Post subject:  Alternative (non-traditional) materials
Hello everybody. Well, I havent posted much but have done some reading on the forum. I actually havent gone through a build yet and still getting some tools together but, if I may, I'd like to ask a question. To begin with just let me tell youj why I ask the question. I have just recently read a review on a cheap Martin which uses a whole bunch of alternative to the tradidional materials eg. Richlite instead of ebony for fingerboard and bridge, Stratabond instead of mahogany for the neck. And then also a high pressure laminate for back and sides. Are there any custom builders who would ever consider using any of these materials? If not can you tell me why please?

Cheers - Ed
Author:  Haans [ Tue Jan 11, 2011 6:15 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Alternative (non-traditional) materials
No. It's not wood.
Author:  Frank Cousins [ Tue Jan 11, 2011 9:05 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Alternative (non-traditional) materials
To be fair to Martin, the instruments built from stratboard (necks) and HPL back and sides were teh result of two considerations: 1) building to a price point, and 2) a search for alternative materials as quality woods in the quantities they get through may not always be available in future at a sensible price. Especially as there are now vast factories in China and the far east building all solid wood guitars for sub £500 ($650) - so there is teh green angkle as well. The premise being that if build well, and with a decent solid top, you should get a reasonably sounding instrument.

Of course as Fillipo mentioned above, individual builders are looking at the top end of the market and use their experience with different individual pieces of wood to match the tone required for a particular customer - something that comes with years of experience and knowledge of the woods and subtle changes in construction detail.

Also, for an individual luthier the biggest cost of an instrument is usually time - given that say an avergae is about 100 hours that's $2500 at $25 per hour - add $750 for quality materials and you have $3250 before there is any profit... so its not an easy living... for teh big manufacturers, with a high degree of CNC machines they can probably get labor down to about 20 hours so teh cost of materials is now relatively expensive - so looking for cheaper and consistent materials makes commercial sense.


Simply put, instruments made from these non traditional materials (although not exclusively so) tend to be for a different market. Both have their place.
Author:  Ti-Roux [ Tue Jan 11, 2011 1:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Alternative (non-traditional) materials
Haans wrote:
No. It's not wood.


Well said.

I build from wood, cause I'm a wood lover. Wood come from something alive (called a TREE), and it gives life to something beautiful called sound, or music. Between tree and music, there's a luthier, who select every single piece of wood. Wood is alive, so each piece is different, rarely perfect, that is awesome. You can chose the exact piece you need for a precise purpose.

If you're not that poetic, you can take some carbon fiber, cheap plywood, anything... but some companies do it, and sell their guitar way more cheaper than you'll ever be able to sell it. So, where's the interest?

And you know what? Wood is ****ing beautiful. That's all pfft
I put the more wood I can on my guitar. I'm so ashame to put a pickguard electrics than I make wood veneered PVC pickguard idunno

peace [:Y:]
Francis


Eat Drink I'd like to hear Padma's answer to this. duh Padma?
Author:  Jim Kirby [ Tue Jan 11, 2011 8:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Alternative (non-traditional) materials
Hi Ed, welcome to the OLF.

I would have to agree with the stream of replies you have gotten so far. Most of what factories are doing with alternative materials is aimed at fighting a price point. For us at the individual build end, with the wood in hand and the time to smell and handle and experience it, that just isn't the deal. It's not the thing that motivates.

That being said, there are always exceptions and curiosities. As I am mainly a classical builder, it is hard to avoid, as an example, the lure/curiosity/challenge of the Torres composite guitar. (People would usually refer to it as the papier mache guitar, but that is a misnomer in present terms - the material is a pressed hardboard that is structurally pretty sound.) I would say that it is good to explore into any area that holds a particular interest for you. There is no question that good guitars can be built using non-conventional materials. The question is whether you need to economically, or whether you want to because of the adventure.
Author:  JasonMoe [ Wed Jan 12, 2011 1:10 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Alternative (non-traditional) materials
When I was a little kid in the 80's, at church, we had a guy that played a guitar that was plastic on the back. I thought he was a dork and poor because he could'nt afford a wooden guitar. LOL, 20 some years later I learned it was an Ovation. I always and still think of him as a wierdo because of that guitar.
Author:  the Padma [ Wed Jan 12, 2011 2:24 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Alternative (non-traditional) materials
Ti-Roux wrote:
Haans wrote:
No. It's not wood.


I'd like to hear Padma's answer to this. duh Padma?



Well Francis

As a professional sawdust maker who produces the odd wood instruments alls me gotta say is ... pfft

However, me do belief in "if it gets the pig clean...use it" So it looks like Martin is getting there pig clean and good for them. You go Chris!


Here is a pick of the neck...must admit it does have an interesting look.
Image


Me waiting for the day when hemp fibers (we have the technology) maybe used in this way.. I hear it can make for incredibly stiff applications in necks and tops and a gazzilion other products.



blessings
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