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Pore Filling, What's Your Favorite Method
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Author:  John Hale [ Tue Jan 11, 2011 7:09 am ]
Post subject:  Pore Filling, What's Your Favorite Method
I'm on Uke number 3 now and am at that stage where I need to pore fill and am currently experimenting with an egg white I've tried west systems epoxy on a guitar I made and didn't like the drying time or sanding back, next I tried super glue on uke 1 and it worked well sanded easier but the fumes were bad so on my last uke and this I've been experimenting with egg whites and am liking it so far, and I just wondered what methods people were using and why.
Author:  woody b [ Tue Jan 11, 2011 7:30 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Pore Filling, What's Your Favorite Method
There's more ways to fill the pores than there are to finish a guitar. I've been using CrystaLac waterborne grain filler on my last 10 or so finishes. http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?page=17353 It works, and stays in the pores well. Like any pore filler the trick is getting it down into the pores instead of just bridging them. I can tint it with transtint if I want to color to pores, but I'll do a wash coat of finish before doing this. On wood with really big pores I use West Systems Epoxy.
Author:  Corky Long [ Tue Jan 11, 2011 9:16 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Pore Filling, What's Your Favorite Method
I've been using the Zpoxy method on my last four or five guitars. To say that it's my "favorite" method isn't quite accurate, although I really like the effect that it has on "popping the grain". My reservations include an interest in eliminating all the chemicals in my shop that can come back to haunt me, and the fact that it's fussy to apply - good tutorials here, but I still end up with challenges in applying enough, but not too much. etc. Sanding back can be laborious, and tricky to sand it evenly. At the end of the day, it does result in a very nice fill.
Author:  Freeman [ Tue Jan 11, 2011 9:44 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Pore Filling, What's Your Favorite Method
Corky Long wrote:
I've been using the Zpoxy method on my last four or five guitars. To say that it's my "favorite" method isn't quite accurate, although I really like the effect that it has on "popping the grain". My reservations include an interest in eliminating all the chemicals in my shop that can come back to haunt me, and the fact that it's fussy to apply - good tutorials here, but I still end up with challenges in applying enough, but not too much. etc. Sanding back can be laborious, and tricky to sand it evenly. At the end of the day, it does result in a very nice fill.


Exactly my feelings. For my first several rosewood and mahogany instruments I simply used StewMac's paste filler and was satisfied, but I had some very special koa for a tricone and wanted to bring out the grain. I tried the SM paste, CA and Zpoxy on a piece of scrap koa, then shot KTM-9 over all three and buffed. The Zpoxy did the best job of "popping the grain" but it was certainly the hardest to work with. I've got two koa Weissenborns on the bench right now, looks like I'll use up some more Zpoxy.
Author:  ChuckG [ Tue Jan 11, 2011 11:00 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Pore Filling, What's Your Favorite Method
It's probably my least favorite task, but I use Zpoxy and really like the results.

Chuck
Author:  DannyV [ Tue Jan 11, 2011 11:23 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Pore Filling, What's Your Favorite Method
Todd Stock wrote:
silex/paste filler for the semi-opaque finishes on more vintage-style stuff.

Todd, the toot you did on epoxy filling is a bang on method. I use a Stanley knife type blade to scrape down and seems to work well. It definatly works best to not take it back to bare wood. I did have to find out for myself though......... on Paduik. gaah I took the back down to bare wood but not the sides. Guess which took half as many finish coats?

What sort of silex filler do you use?

Thanks
Author:  WudWerkr [ Tue Jan 11, 2011 1:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Pore Filling, What's Your Favorite Method
I prefer the Zpoxy as well . I have found on one that I did that it is verrry forgiving if you dont get the sanding as nice as it should be ; IE "witness lines " it seems to blend nicely and I have had NO problems with any witness lines . NOW , all that having been said , z poxy is the ONLY method ive used , so its simply my choice by default . The smell is a bit funky at first , and it does require a bit of learning to apply it properly .
Author:  Colin S [ Tue Jan 11, 2011 1:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Pore Filling, What's Your Favorite Method
Egg white. I've tried them all over the years; pummice, paste, epoxy etc, but much prefer egg white, at least I can eat any unused, try that with epoxy!

Colin
Author:  BobK [ Tue Jan 11, 2011 2:02 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Pore Filling, What's Your Favorite Method
Colin, will egg white filler work well on woods with large pores like oak? (That's a sneaky way of asking will it fill small binding gaps. :) )

Bob
Author:  Dave Livermore [ Tue Jan 11, 2011 3:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Pore Filling, What's Your Favorite Method
+1 for egg whites.
However, bear in mind that any of the systems have a learning curve that will no doubt cause frustration until a satisfactory result is acheived.
My first couple tries at egg whites didn't work so well, but at least the house wasn't stinky and I didn't sand my arm away getting back to wood. Once I figured out the right pressue, grit of sandpaper, wetness level to work with, amount of time to spend on an area, size of area to work, number of sessions, etc... etc... etc... I made it work out fine.

Anyone else who has conistent good results with whichever method works for them will probably be able to say the same exact things I just did about their system.

Advice; spend enough time with your system and it will work.
If it doesn't work, ask us more questions and we'll help you out.

Good luck,
Dave
Author:  Michael.N. [ Tue Jan 11, 2011 3:55 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Pore Filling, What's Your Favorite Method
Over the years I've tried a number. Filling with Shellac works well and seems to give a neutral colour match. Takes forever. Oil sand method is nice but takes a long time to fully harden. For some reason Egg white gave a bad colour match on Walnut but was fine on Rosewood. I don't get on with paste fillers. My pumice technique has improved (only through persistence) so I'm staying with that!
Author:  DennisK [ Tue Jan 11, 2011 5:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Pore Filling, What's Your Favorite Method
Michael.N. wrote:
My pumice technique has improved (only through persistence) so I'm staying with that!

That's good to hear :lol: So far I've only tried pumice, but I don't think I've done it right yet. It took forever and still shrunk into the pores a bit after a couple weeks. And that was on mahogany, which has pretty small pores. I couldn't get the slurry to move around without basically soaking it, which probably made it shrink a bit as it dried out. And I might have added too much shellac on the final scrubs back and forth to smooth it out before moving on to bodying. Probably topped off the pores with mostly shellac, and made it look like I was finally done when I actually just made a mess :oops:

Maybe I should try coarser pumice than the LMI powder next time. It feels like it's fluffing up such microscopic fibers that it takes a very long time of rubbing (and thus a lot of alcohol to keep it wet enough to move the pumice) to work up enough slurry to fill a whole pore. And there are a lot of pores.

I'm also tempted to try the LMI micro-bead filler, but maybe I'll give pumice a couple more tries first, since I do like the idea of filling the pores with dust of the wood itself.
Author:  Rob Warren [ Tue Jan 11, 2011 5:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Pore Filling, What's Your Favorite Method
Just did mahogany with the LMI micro-bead, and I'm pretty impressed. It seems to dry kinda fast, so work small areas, and I got good results. Used 2 applications, and they went quickly. Been done since week before xmas, and don't see any shrinkage.
Author:  Michael.N. [ Tue Jan 11, 2011 6:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Pore Filling, What's Your Favorite Method
I have two grades of Pumice: 6/0 and 3/0 - the 3/0 being the coarser. I think the 6/0 is close to being the equivalent of FFFF, I could be wrong.
I actually find the finer grade to be better or at least easier, for pore filling.
My very first attempt at pore filling with Pumice went incredibly well. Not only that but it was pretty fast. Must have been beginners luck because the subsequent attempts were incredibly frustrating. It was hopeless. Over time I probably revisted the method at least 10 times and (at best) the pores were only partially filled. Even then it seemed to take an age.
Now I seem to have regained some of that beginners luck. On reflection I suspect that I was using too much pressure. Good French Polishing requires the use of a fair degree of pressure. it seems that you need to forget that technique when it comes to the pumice fill. Too much or too little shellac on the surface also affects things. Too little and the binder is ineffective. Too much and you are fighting a gummy mess that drags and clogs the pad quickly.
Probably best to practice on a series of small 6" x 6" off cuts, varying the amount of the initial cut and 'coats' of Shellac.
The only other advice I can give is not to expect to fill the pores in one go, although some talented folk may be able to do it. Do the pore fill and then leave for a few days. Let it all harden and sink before redoing. Use a good side light for problem pores/areas.
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