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Pad or No Pad
http://luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=31652		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  Stuart Gort [ Mon Mar 28, 2011 9:24 am ]
Post subject:  Pad or No Pad
So...I can get some nice sanding blocks through Grizzly or I can make my own. The Grizzly blocks have a felt pad on the base. I'm not sure if it can be easily removed.

I'm under the impression that all my flat sanding is best done with hard, flat blocks.

I can see how a felt pad would make better overall contact....but I can also see it rounding off edges.

What's your experience?
Author:  Clay S. [ Mon Mar 28, 2011 9:40 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Pad or No Pad
To flatten things a flat hard pad works best. I've glued pieces of hpl on the bottoms of some of my electric pad sanders to use them for flattening things. Felt will wrap itself around the work and cork is somewhere in between. Having a collection of different backing pads and sanding blocks allows you to use the right one for different jobs.
Author:  WaddyThomson [ Mon Mar 28, 2011 9:44 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Pad or No Pad
I would say that it depends on the felt. There's hard felt and there's soft felt, like material. You can even buy felt blocks that can be used as sanding blocks, and they are pretty hard. Some folks use felt blocks and rottonstone to rub out finishes.
Author:  Pat Foster [ Mon Mar 28, 2011 10:32 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Pad or No Pad
Stu,

I use hard blocks. It's the best way for me to get a truly flat surface. It seems to me that finishing is a lot easier when I start with a rigid block during pre-finish prep and early finish levelling, then move to more cushy pads as I progress through the later stages. Works for me. YMMV.

Pat
Author:  LuthierSupplier [ Mon Mar 28, 2011 11:44 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Pad or No Pad
I'm with Pat on this. I use little blocks made from MDF during the prep before finish, and in the early finish stages. Then use softer blocks after moving to grits over 600 grit. So you can still use those felt blocks, just not during the prep stages. I actually use a cork lined mdf block at the next stage(make these myself by gluing them on with spray adhesive), then the final stage of finish I use Japanese Erasers(keishi gummu), as I like the consistency better then the trapezoid american erasers. But have use american erasers too. Just cut off the 2 ends to make little blocks and wrap your high grit sandpaper around them...only used for wet sanding. Hope that helps!
Author:  B. Howard [ Mon Mar 28, 2011 7:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Pad or No Pad
I have some felt backed saning pads from 3M that hold a roll of stick-it on the front. They are absolutely fabulous for sanding during finishing, and clean fresh abrasive is a snap. I like a block lined with 1/4" cork for a lot of final sanding prior to finishing and only use a hard solid block for initial leveling.
Brian
Author:  CharlieT [ Mon Mar 28, 2011 9:45 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Pad or No Pad
Clay S. wrote:
To flatten things a flat hard pad works best. I've glued pieces of hpl on the bottoms of some of my electric pad sanders to use them for flattening things. Felt will wrap itself around the work and cork is somewhere in between. Having a collection of different backing pads and sanding blocks allows you to use the right one for different jobs.


Clay - if I may ask, what is "hpl"?
Author:  Ken Jones [ Mon Mar 28, 2011 10:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Pad or No Pad
It seems every little nook and cranny of my shop is being taken over by cauls and sanding blocks. I've got sanding blocks for every occasion -- most are stikit abrasives stuck to mdf or plywood, but the forms they take are endless -- flat, concave, convex, cylindrical, dainty, burly, teardrop-shaped, reverse-scalloped, beveled, T-shaped, tall and skinny, short n' fat, you name it. For finish work, it's a rigid block for initial leveling down to 600, then I switch to Micro Mesh with the foam block. Take that up to 12,000, then it's just a few minutes on the buffer.
Author:  Dave Fifield [ Tue Mar 29, 2011 2:37 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Pad or No Pad
Bruce Sexauer once gave us a tip (at one of our NCAL meetings) that the best sanding "block" material he'd ever found was rectangles cut from cheap flip-flops!

I tried it - bought some $2 size 11's and cut them up on the bandsaw - they work great! YMMV.

+1 for using custom sized MDF blocks as needed also.

Cheers,
Dave F.
Author:  SteveSmith [ Tue Mar 29, 2011 7:49 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Pad or No Pad
+1 on the erasers. I use the white, rectangular drafting erasers. Great for small areas like headstocks, around the heel and so on.
Author:  Ken Jones [ Tue Mar 29, 2011 12:39 pm ]
Post subject:  Pad or No Pad
Filippo Morelli wrote:
Ken Jones wrote:
For finish work, it's a rigid block for initial leveling down to 600, then I switch to Micro Mesh with the foam block. Take that up to 12,000, then it's just a few minutes on the buffer.

I used to do this, but two compounds of Menzerna and I discovered I can't tell the difference between a buffed piece that was a 2,000 grit and one that was sanding an additional six or eight steps to 12,000. I should add that my experience is specifically with nitrocellulose lacquer.

Filippo

2000 on the Micro Mesh scale? There's 1800 and 2400, which I'd estimate is around 1000 grit on the P-scale. There's no way I could buff those scratches out. I could see stopping around 4000 or 6000, but no sooner. My experience is with EM6000 waterborne lacquer.
Author:  Howard Klepper [ Tue Mar 29, 2011 12:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Pad or No Pad
You need both hard and soft blocks, and some in between. Depends on which part of which job you are on.

It would help sanding discussions a lot if people would specify which grit system they are in. I've found that a lot of folks (including a very well-known luthier) are mixing grit systems without knowing it. FEPA ("P") system grits are numbered roughly twice as high as equivalent CAMI (old American system) grits. And there are also differences in the grit tolerance. Then there are those other systems and non-paper materials that don't exactly translate.
Author:  TonyFrancis [ Tue Mar 29, 2011 4:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Pad or No Pad
-
Author:  B. Howard [ Tue Mar 29, 2011 7:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Pad or No Pad
CharlieT wrote:
Clay S. wrote:
To flatten things a flat hard pad works best. I've glued pieces of hpl on the bottoms of some of my electric pad sanders to use them for flattening things. Felt will wrap itself around the work and cork is somewhere in between. Having a collection of different backing pads and sanding blocks allows you to use the right one for different jobs.


Clay - if I may ask, what is "hpl"?

High pressure laminate. You may know it as Formica.
Author:  CharlieT [ Tue Mar 29, 2011 8:17 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Pad or No Pad
B. Howard wrote:
High pressure laminate. You may know it as Formica.


Ah...thank you Brian.
Author:  nickton [ Wed Mar 30, 2011 3:29 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Pad or No Pad
why do they have to do that with the grits? Jeez. As if things weren't complicated enuf. [headinwall] duh
Author:  Clay S. [ Fri Apr 01, 2011 5:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Pad or No Pad
Hi Charlie,
Sorry I didn't check back to this thread sooner. As Brian mentioned it is "Formica" type materials. It can either be spray glued to the backing pad of the sander, or if you use sections of sanding belts, glued to the back side of the belt. The belt sander method allows you to use the "hard pad" for your initial flattening, then switch back to the original surface for the final sanding.
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