Official Luthiers Forum! :: View topic - Gluing the bridge in place

jfmckenna wrote:

I prefer wood to wood contact on the bridge but some people will use CA right to the finish.

OK, let's be specific there. Some people, to my knowledge, is only Rick Turner. I know of nobody else successfully doing this.
And he worked out a specific sealer and finish, namely Waterlox and McFadden catalysed urethane if I recall (please correct me if I am wrong), that will not delaminate under string tension. Furthermore, CA cleans up with acetone and only some modern catalysed finishes can take the abuse. Most finishes will be damaged by contact with acetone, and that is especially true of organic finishes like shellac, nitro cellulose lacquer and oil varnish.
Don't even attempt gluing a bridge with CA with any finish unless everything is figured out 100%.

Author:	David Wolfe [ Wed May 04, 2011 7:54 pm ]
Post subject:	Gluing the bridge in place
I used Zpoxy to fill the pores on my redwood soundboard before I located the fretboard and bridge locations.I have since taped off where they will be mounted to prevent finishing those areas.My question is do I use WEST epoxy to glue the fretboard and bridge in place or try to scrape down to bare wood under the fretboard and bridge and use titebond or LMI white glue

Author:	Ti-Roux [ Wed May 04, 2011 8:29 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Gluing the bridge in place
First, you don't need to porefill redwood. If you can find pores there, you have really good eyes... Second, you definitely want a perfect wood to wood contact when you glue both the fingerboard and the bridge.

Author:	Alain Moisan [ Wed May 04, 2011 9:20 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Gluing the bridge in place
Yes, scrape down to bare wood and you'll be fine with titebone (and probably with LMII white as well, although I never used it, so take this for what it's worth...)

Author:	Ti-Roux [ Wed May 04, 2011 10:14 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Gluing the bridge in place
Pieces slip more with LMI than with Titebond, you have to be aware of that. Titebond stick quickly, for what I experienced.

Author:	Rick Davis [ Wed May 04, 2011 11:58 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Gluing the bridge in place
I use LMI glue for redwood soundboards but I thin it with a couple drops of water (maybe 5%). No problems with about 25 guitars. But I've never used epoxy on a soundboard (why would you?) so YMMV.

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Author:	Gtrman13 [ Thu May 05, 2011 12:15 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Gluing the bridge in place
Echo on the pore filling. No need for it. As for glueing, I get great results with LMI white. You definitely want to use a white glue here, and I simply don't trust elmers for a joint like that...

Author:	David Wolfe [ Thu May 05, 2011 5:53 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Gluing the bridge in place
This is my first guitar build. I bought the kit from LMI and the Robert Obrien DVD, which has been very helpful,in the DVD he put the Zpoxy on his spruce top thats why I did my redwood top. What is the down side of doing that? Thanks for all your replies.

Author:	Glenn LaSalle [ Thu May 05, 2011 8:46 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Gluing the bridge in place
John Hall has a couple Youtube videos on glueing the bridge: Glenn

Author:	stan thomison [ Thu May 05, 2011 9:24 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Gluing the bridge in place
I do like Rick. You don't need to fill the top. That said, I have with a very thin mix and leveling it for FP. Even for that not needed, but it gave me a good starting point. I haven't used that method in a long time though. I now tend to just slurry fill with shellac (if slurry is a term or word)

Author:	bluescreek [ Thu May 05, 2011 9:53 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Gluing the bridge in place
I never use a filler on a top unless it is Mahogany and even then I try and mask off the foot print.

Author:	jfmckenna [ Thu May 05, 2011 10:36 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Gluing the bridge in place
I prefer wood to wood contact on the bridge but some people will use CA right to the finish.

Author:	Laurent Brondel [ Thu May 05, 2011 11:24 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Gluing the bridge in place
jfmckenna wrote: I prefer wood to wood contact on the bridge but some people will use CA right to the finish. OK, let's be specific there. Some people, to my knowledge, is only Rick Turner. I know of nobody else successfully doing this. And he worked out a specific sealer and finish, namely Waterlox and McFadden catalysed urethane if I recall (please correct me if I am wrong), that will not delaminate under string tension. Furthermore, CA cleans up with acetone and only some modern catalysed finishes can take the abuse. Most finishes will be damaged by contact with acetone, and that is especially true of organic finishes like shellac, nitro cellulose lacquer and oil varnish. Don't even attempt gluing a bridge with CA with any finish unless everything is figured out 100%.

Author:	stan thomison [ Thu May 05, 2011 11:54 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Gluing the bridge in place
I am with Laurent here on trying to glue with CA or poxy over a finish. One is asking for a mess. Why do it when a clean and LMI or whatever wood glue use will do the trick and not a problem. Rick is in whole different class than most of us here and in that area. To the good. I said I only use Z poxy on rare occasion for the top (well for that matter any) finish work now. Those times were when doing a very light and thinned mixture for FP or had some doubts about the top, which if normally I have a doubt I don't use it. Low and behold this morning I went out and pulled a body to finish up a build. I found over time the seam of the join shows and cracks. I have put cleats on them them and the top is a little thin so used a light coat and thinned mixture. Gave it a little color so will sand it lightly and level then shoot over it. I would normally just redo the top or never have used it in the first place as it is an orphan so to speak, but a give away and will be fine for tone and structure.

Author:	Alain Moisan [ Thu May 05, 2011 2:07 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Gluing the bridge in place
Laurent Brondel wrote: ...McFadden catalysed urethane if I recall (please correct me if I am wrong)... Rick uses polyester (or used to when he was hanging around here). Here's a link to a very informative thread about it: viewtopic.php?f=10102&t=13299

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Author:	bluescreek [ Thu May 05, 2011 3:25 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Gluing the bridge in place
There is a big issue here , and that is what are you going to do if you ever got to take off a bridge. Epoxy and you will have to rout off the bridge same with CA. Using a wood glue like tite bond , HHG you can take it off with heat . Trust me wood glue is much better that anything else in my book. I am up to 129 guitars and it works for me. I have had to do repairs on CA attached bridges. this will about double the cost of bridge work , my 2 cents .

Author:	David Wolfe [ Thu May 05, 2011 4:11 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Gluing the bridge in place
I forgot to mention that Robert O'brien did tape off the bridge location before he put the Zpoxy on the top. You learn so much more from your own mistakes than from anything else. I will scrape the epoxy off at the bridge location. Thanks to all for their help. I appreciate it!!

Author:	Darrel Friesen [ Thu May 05, 2011 9:50 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Gluing the bridge in place
Didn't Larivee do this as well? I seem to recall a GAL article where he went through gallons of CA including for doing the back seam on EIR. Laurent Brondel wrote: jfmckenna wrote: I prefer wood to wood contact on the bridge but some people will use CA right to the finish. OK, let's be specific there. Some people, to my knowledge, is only Rick Turner. I know of nobody else successfully doing this. And he worked out a specific sealer and finish, namely Waterlox and McFadden catalysed urethane if I recall (please correct me if I am wrong), that will not delaminate under string tension. Furthermore, CA cleans up with acetone and only some modern catalysed finishes can take the abuse. Most finishes will be damaged by contact with acetone, and that is especially true of organic finishes like shellac, nitro cellulose lacquer and oil varnish. Don't even attempt gluing a bridge with CA with any finish unless everything is figured out 100%.

Author:	nickton [ Fri May 06, 2011 12:21 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Gluing the bridge in place
thanks for the link. Excellent videos.

Author:	jfmckenna [ Fri May 06, 2011 9:23 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Gluing the bridge in place
Ah ok I didn't know that about the special finish required to use CA. I did a repair on a Larivee a few months back and was surprised that the bridge was glued right to the finish, so I would guess that is the method used, and it failed. Like I said, I like wood to wood anyway. It wouldn't be too terribly difficult to scrape off the epoxy would it? IDK cause I never used zpoxy before though I am interested in it.