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| Author: | James Orr [ Thu Aug 11, 2011 2:28 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Preferred setup for inlay |
This fall I think I'd like to get setup for inlay. Up to this point my guitars haven't had any mostly because I like the organic look, but also because I'm not setup to do them. I'd love to hear what your ideal setup (minus CNC  ) is. Tooling, lighting, whatever comes to mind.Edit: Oh! And bits/end mills! |
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| Author: | Tom West [ Thu Aug 11, 2011 3:14 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Preferred setup for inlay |
James : Don't do much but use a Dremel with the Stew Mac router base. I like to have the work almost at eye level.A bit dangerous so use some sort of eye protection. Optic veiwers with head band and some sort of adjustable arm for a light. Bits where ever I can get them. Lee Valley,Dremel etc,but there are better out there if you look.Some folks use some sort of air supply to remove the dust. Tom |
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| Author: | Lavrov Guitars [ Thu Aug 11, 2011 3:26 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Preferred setup for inlay |
I use the dremel with stew mac base. A scrap piece of wood with as the base for whatever I am cutting with a little cut in the beggining to fit the blade of the jewlers saw. I use a jewlers saw to cut the inlay, and be ready to buy lotsa blades, becuase they go pretty easy. The air suppy that was mentioned is a really good idea because when cutting the inlay material, the dust always covers the cutting lines of picture or what not. Bits, I just buy them at random stores in town if I find some nice tiny ones. You'll also need an exacto knife or something similiar for sharp corners. Also, if you plan on starting with shell, have some patients ready!! Wood is really easy to cut, but pearl takes a little more patients. Really rewarding at the end! Im not a pro, nowhere near, but here's my latest using the tools I just mentiond. |
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| Author: | DennisK [ Thu Aug 11, 2011 3:49 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Preferred setup for inlay |
My essential tools: Jeweler's saw 1 dozen each 4/0 and 2/0 blades (pick your favorite and then buy a gross )Half round and knife style needle files Strip of 180 grit wet/dry paper, used wet for smoothing edges and refining shapes Some sort of table with a notch in it, to hold the piece while you saw Big bowl of water. Dip your fingers frequently to contain dust Black&Decker Dremel knockoff with StewMac router base (a transparent base would be even better) 1/8", 1/16", 1/32" spiral downcut bits. Mine are from precisebits.com, with depth ring Safety glasses for routing X-acto knife for scoring around pieces, and cleaning out corners the router can't fit into Some kind of glue. I use a dot of elmer's to stick pieces down to score around, and LMI white for installation Scraper for leveling after inlaying Oh, and a pencil to draw shapes on blanks before cutting. if you want to do printed patterns so everything fits together perfectly (assuming you can cut exactly on the lines), then you'll probably have to switch to vacuum dust collection, rather than water. |
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| Author: | dunwell [ Thu Aug 11, 2011 3:53 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Preferred setup for inlay |
Howdy James, I find/found the dremell to have too much run-out in the shaft for doing close inlay work. Take a look at the mini-die grinders from Harbour Freight http://www.harborfreight.com/1-8-eighth-inch-air-micro-die-grinder-47869.html These are dirt cheap (buy two) and will take the same bits you can get for free from your dentist. You need to get a 1/16" collet for a dremel and use that for the dental bits though. I made my own base out of plexi which you can see on my web site http://dunwellguitar.com/ in the various threads in my Luthier Links about building guitars, etc. But just a simple holder with a thumb screw for vertical adjustment would be just fine. RioGrande jewelry supply house has fret saws (not for cutting fret slots but for inlay cutting) and blades of various tpi. Nothing special needed for this, just the saw and some sort of "bird mouth" support. I make my supports out of some scrap maple that I hold in the bench vise at eye level. For cutting really fine pieces I like to use a piece of maple that has a 1/8" hole drilled in it and a saw slot coming over to it from the side. I do all the cutting in the hole area and the slot lets me bring the saw blade in. This gives a lot more support than a birds mouth and the little pieces don't jump off, roll down your apron and into the trash can quite as often. A good side light is recommended. A simple clip on works but a high intensity one is better. Magnifiers. I just use 2X grocery store glasses but those head band type ones are the bees knees! Some of those come with a built in LED light system. Get an old aquarium pump from your goodwill and use the vacuum side of it if it is available to suck the dust into a bottle filled with cotton wool. Or use the puffer side and just gently blow the dust away. Use a dust mask. While most shell isn't toxic (despite what a lot of blather on the web says) you don't want to breath in small particles of anything. They tend to get lodged in the lungs. Just some thoughts off the top Alan D. |
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| Author: | Pat Foster [ Thu Aug 11, 2011 4:02 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Preferred setup for inlay |
James, Here's my setup. It's what I started with around the time of our bicentennial, but it works pretty well. It's an old Dremel with a simple Dremel base. I picked up a slick little trick somewhere along the way: wrap a small strip of tape about 3/16" x 1" or so a few turns around the collet opposite to the direction of rotation and you get a nice little fan to keep the dust away while you're routing. I prefer the downcut bits, usually on the small side for fine work. Attachment: picture-30.jpg Attachment: picture-24.jpg I use an ancient jewelers saw and a piece of oak. Blades are usually 0 or 000. I use a hose from my vacuum cleaner. Not shown here, but I usually use a screen over it. DAMHIKT. A hard light is more useful IMO than a soft one, and an Opti-visor or similar helps. A respirator with a dust filter or something similar is essential. Attachment: picture-108.jpg Sometimes a touch of paraffin helps to reduce binding. If it does bind, let go of the pearl and it will move to where it wants to be. Don't bear down while cutting the pearl, just let the blade do the work. On complex pieces, plan the sequence of cuts so that you minimize the stress on skinny parts. I keep my eye a bit ahead of where I'm cutting, like when using the bandsaw. Pat |
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| Author: | Lavrov Guitars [ Thu Aug 11, 2011 4:02 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Preferred setup for inlay |
dunwell wrote: Howdy James, I find/found the dremell to have too much run-out in the shaft for doing close inlay work. Take a look at the mini-die grinders from Harbour Freight http://www.harborfreight.com/1-8-eighth-inch-air-micro-die-grinder-47869.html These are dirt cheap (buy two) and will take the same bits you can get for free from your dentist. You need to get a 1/16" collet for a dremel and use that for the dental bits though. I made my own base out of plexi which you can see on my web site http://dunwellguitar.com/ in the various threads in my Luthier Links about building guitars, etc. But just a simple holder with a thumb screw for vertical adjustment would be just fine. RioGrande jewelry supply house has fret saws (not for cutting fret slots but for inlay cutting) and blades of various tpi. Nothing special needed for this, just the saw and some sort of "bird mouth" support. I make my supports out of some scrap maple that I hold in the bench vise at eye level. For cutting really fine pieces I like to use a piece of maple that has a 1/8" hole drilled in it and a saw slot coming over to it from the side. I do all the cutting in the hole area and the slot lets me bring the saw blade in. This gives a lot more support than a birds mouth and the little pieces don't jump off, roll down your apron and into the trash can quite as often. A good side light is recommended. A simple clip on works but a high intensity one is better. Magnifiers. I just use 2X grocery store glasses but those head band type ones are the bees knees! Some of those come with a built in LED light system. Get an old aquarium pump from your goodwill and use the vacuum side of it if it is available to suck the dust into a bottle filled with cotton wool. Or use the puffer side and just gently blow the dust away. Use a dust mask. While most shell isn't toxic (despite what a lot of blather on the web says) you don't want to breath in small particles of anything. They tend to get lodged in the lungs. Just some thoughts off the top Alan D. You get the dentist bits from your local dentist office? Free? How are they? |
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| Author: | TonyKarol [ Thu Aug 11, 2011 4:11 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Preferred setup for inlay |
If you have a compressor .. get the mini die grinder and make an adjustable base for it .. its easy. I have used a lam trimmer, dremel, and now this .. no comparison, its the cats meow. The die grinder spins faster than any router, and weighs nothing .. this makes it easier to control .. 1/32 bits from precise or cet ... about 6 bucks a crack. I not only use for inlay, but to route the finsih off for gluing a bridge .. I leave a small ledge of finish, so I also use a die grinder setup on a mini arched router table with a small fence to route a mini lip around the bridge perimeter ... sits right in there. |
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| Author: | Mike R [ Fri Aug 12, 2011 7:58 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Preferred setup for inlay |
All my dentist had was grinding burrs. You need a spiral downcut bit, preferably carbide. The downcut removes the fuzz in the pocket, but not all the sawdust. You simply blow on it to clean the pocket. The bits are available at many stores. John Hall sells a die grinder setup that is excellent. There are many many "tricks of the trade" not mentioned here. I attended a week long class to learn about inlay. I highly recommend such a thing, as it did wonders for me. There is no substitute for learning from a pro.....There are also some YouTube videos teaching inlay. I would not recommend wasting your money on vacuum or blowing devices. That really isn't necessary. The dust does not get fine enough to go airborne. Most of it stays on your hand. If you wear glasses, get a pair of prescription glasses that have a focal length of about 10". That is where you need to have your eyes when cutting pearl or shell. I use the glasses with no other magnification. Progressive lenses do not work with Optivisors. The glasses sound like a lot, but if you have an old set of glasses, you can use those frames and the cost will be minimal. I took five days of classes and I am cutting and inlaying some intricate designs. It was a worthy investment. Mike R |
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| Author: | L. Presnall [ Fri Aug 12, 2011 9:41 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Preferred setup for inlay |
TonyKarol wrote: I not only use for inlay, but to route the finsih off for gluing a bridge .. I leave a small ledge of finish, so I also use a die grinder setup on a mini arched router table with a small fence to route a mini lip around the bridge perimeter ... sits right in there. Don't wanna hijack the thread, but Tony, could I see that bridge ledge routing setup? |
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| Author: | bluescreek [ Fri Aug 12, 2011 9:49 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Preferred setup for inlay |
http://www.youtube.com/results?search_q ... bluescreek here are some videos to help you get an idea of what you can do . This is just the inlay portion . Cutting vids will be out soon . Hope these help you . It is about process and you your hands skills are . Practice a few times . Bits are not expensive. Dental burrs are ok but they can burn . Using a straight end mill http://www.bqtool.com/shop/index.php?cPath=22 I use 1/32 and .020 . You can order them by phone . These work very well with the die grinder and are a 1/8 in shank . |
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| Author: | SteveSmith [ Fri Aug 12, 2011 9:58 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Preferred setup for inlay |
Optivisor, combination of fluorescent and incandescent light. Similar setup to most to cut the inlay. Was using a Dremel with base but had problems with run-out like most so upgraded to the mini die grinder and base from Blues Creek - I really like it. |
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| Author: | James Orr [ Fri Aug 12, 2011 12:36 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Preferred setup for inlay |
Thanks, everyone. This is great feedback. |
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| Author: | Miketobey [ Sat Aug 13, 2011 8:29 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Preferred setup for inlay |
I use the Foredom on the StewMAc base, with foot pedal. I have a bunch of Lucite base blanks suitable for StewMac and Bishop Cochran miniature router bases( 2 1/2" x 3" x 1/2"). I have one marked out for the BC. I could do StewMacs if there is enough interest. I don't use the BC anymore but when I have offered it for sale at a pretty low price, no one wants it. It is very precise but has more mass than I like. |
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| Author: | Don Williams [ Sat Aug 13, 2011 10:57 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Preferred setup for inlay |
The best value in 1/8" endmills is from Drillman1 on eBay. Also, make sure you wear a respirator when cutting shell products as they are incredibly carcinogenic. Nasty stuff. If you can set up a vacuum rig to a vac with very fine filters that will trap the dust, better to vacuum than to blow the dust from shell into the air. |
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| Author: | letseatpaste [ Sat Aug 13, 2011 3:31 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Preferred setup for inlay |
I've only done a couple inlays so far. I use a Stewmac base and dremel which is okay, but last time I vowed to pick up some sort of footswitch for turning it on and off. When you're working in tight places, I found it difficult to lift up the bit or hit the switch without bumping into the sides. |
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| Author: | Darryl Young [ Sat Aug 13, 2011 4:21 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Preferred setup for inlay |
If you have at least a small compressor, get the die grinder with adjustable base from John Hall. I bought it and it works great. Though I have a bigger compressor now, I used it with a pancake compressor at first.......just had to pause once in a while to let the compressor catch up. Larry Robinson's introductory video is good at showing what you need to cut and inlay pearl. He always runs a vacuum while cutting as pearl dust is nasty on your lungs........no way to get it out after you breathe it into your lungs. |
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| Author: | brazil66 [ Sun Aug 14, 2011 11:34 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Preferred setup for inlay |
Burchett quality tool. Good source for 1/32" end mill bits. And..... I use 3/0 blades from Rio Grande. Only size I use. For me, I tried using a small pancake compressor to run the Sioux die grinder router unit....and found that the compressor never stops running. So , till I get a bigger compressor...I use the Dremels mostly. And, Proxxon is a real good alternate to Dremel. |
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| Author: | Chris Paulick [ Tue Aug 16, 2011 6:10 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Preferred setup for inlay |
A Foredom is a good replacement or actually better if you don't want to go the die grinder route. It's also nice because it's quite and can used to drill hole with into your shell for pierce cuts. It's worked for Larry for years so that should tell you something and his first tape explains alot and what you need like already stated. |
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| Author: | CharlieT [ Wed Jan 11, 2012 4:07 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Preferred setup for inlay |
brazil66 wrote: Burchett quality tool. Good source for 1/32" end mill bits. And..... I use 3/0 blades from Rio Grande. Only size I use. For me, I tried using a small pancake compressor to run the Sioux die grinder router unit....and found that the compressor never stops running. So , till I get a bigger compressor...I use the Dremels mostly. And, Proxxon is a real good alternate to Dremel. Sorry to dig up a old thread here, but I have a question about the Burchett end mills mentioned, especially the 1/32" size. They come in coated and uncoated, and in 2-, 3- and 4-flute configurations. I'm not sure what the difference is between coated and uncoated, and don't know which flute configuration would be best for inlay. Anyone who uses these bits, can you please recommend the best choice? In case it matters, I will be using them mostly for rosette channels. TIA, Charlie |
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| Author: | ernie [ Wed Jan 11, 2012 4:32 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Preferred setup for inlay |
Am not a machinest but guessing that a 4 flute would leave the smoothest cut, and coating could be water/rust preventitive. |
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| Author: | york [ Wed Jan 11, 2012 7:50 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Preferred setup for inlay |
Definitely an optivisor of some sort. If you don't already have something for routing for the inlays, check out the die grinder (air powered) with base from John Hall at Blues Creek. |
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| Author: | CharlieT [ Wed Jan 11, 2012 11:42 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Preferred setup for inlay |
ernie wrote: Am not a machinest but guessing that a 4 flute would leave the smoothest cut, and coating could be water/rust preventitive. Thanks Ernie. That makes sense to me but wanted to make sure I wasn't missing something. |
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| Author: | brazil66 [ Thu Jan 12, 2012 11:08 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Preferred setup for inlay |
I use the 2 flute uncoated. I get a good cut....and length of use, before I toss em. I like the price...buy 10 at a time. M. |
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| Author: | CharlieT [ Thu Jan 12, 2012 11:57 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Preferred setup for inlay |
brazil66 wrote: I use the 2 flute uncoated. I get a good cut....and length of use, before I toss em. I like the price...buy 10 at a time. M. Thanks brazil66! |
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