| Official Luthiers Forum! http://luthiersforum.com/forum/ |
|
| Flatsawn "inferior" Wood for Archtop Instruments http://luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=33493 |
Page 1 of 1 |
| Author: | Ian Cunningham [ Sun Sep 11, 2011 5:17 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Flatsawn "inferior" Wood for Archtop Instruments |
Planning out a design for an instrument and have come to the conclusion that for some variants of it (especially the prototypes) an "inferior" cabinet grade wood species would be the better option. Woods like Birch, US Sycamore, Cherry, Ash, Oak, etc. The (roughly) million dollar question is this. I know that flatsawn sides can be bent to shape successfully with skill and good, clear wood, but does grain orientation have the potential to ruin a back for a carved instrument? Ian |
|
| Author: | jason c [ Sun Sep 11, 2011 5:54 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Flatsawn "inferior" Wood for Archtop Instruments |
Well, quilted and birdseye maple are flatsawn and there are no shortage of good instruments with those. I've seen a number of cellos and basses with rift/flatsawn birch or poplar. I'd go for it. |
|
| Author: | kjfultz [ Sun Sep 11, 2011 6:43 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Flatsawn "inferior" Wood for Archtop Instruments |
Hopefully I can tell you about oak soon. I just glued the back to the sides this afternoon. |
|
| Author: | Ian Cunningham [ Sun Sep 11, 2011 8:44 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Flatsawn "inferior" Wood for Archtop Instruments |
Thanks for the input thus far. I'd welcome any more experienced opinions too. Anyone have experience with Hearne Hardwoods? The selection is insane..... |
|
| Author: | cphanna [ Sun Sep 11, 2011 10:22 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Flatsawn "inferior" Wood for Archtop Instruments |
Hey, Ian, Please understand that mine is not an expert opinion. However, your question seems to pertain to choice of woods and grain orientation for the back, and my intuition tells me that you will be okay on your instrument back. I would not make the same suggestion casually about the top, as I believe the top curvature, grain orientation, grain density (lines per inch), etc. all play a roll in giving a top the strength it needs. But I think you will probably be okay with your back as long as you apply common sense to whatever you choose to do. This will matter LESS if the instrument is for your own use. If it is for sale, then perhaps it's best to keep it within more traditional bounds. But for a fun and experimental instrument for you own use, I am pretty sure you can choose any wood and orient the grain any way you wish on the back. With regard to a previous post, I will say that I had a fine opportunity to see and hear an 1803 double bass two weeks ago--played in ensemble with four violins and then with six violins and two cellos. Even its top grain ranged from flat to perfectly vertical and back to flat again, across the width of the top. This instrument had IMMENSE cutting power and tone! It was utterly thrilling to hear this instrument's voice! But nothing about the wood selection was visually pretty. It just WORKED! I think many times these solutions wind up being less about the wood and more about what the builder does with the wood. |
|
| Author: | alan stassforth [ Sun Sep 11, 2011 11:29 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Flatsawn "inferior" Wood for Archtop Instruments |
Acoustic? Electric? Both? Probably still wouldn't matter, except for the top.... |
|
| Author: | Ian Cunningham [ Mon Sep 12, 2011 8:16 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Flatsawn "inferior" Wood for Archtop Instruments |
Alan, It's just going to be for a hollow bodied instrument with a carved back. I might mount electrics to it but if I do they will be surface mounted and removable somehow. cphanna, Thanks for the tip. I think I do remember someone talking about using flatsawn birch for orchestral instruments. As for tops, never questioned the importance of good quality quarter sawn spruce or cedar for that. |
|
| Author: | Bryan Bear [ Mon Sep 12, 2011 9:25 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Flatsawn "inferior" Wood for Archtop Instruments |
You mentioned American Sycamore. If you have a source for that, it is likely quartered or nearly so. I have never seen it for sale other that quartered; it is my understanding that it is not very stable unless QS. It would make a really nice looking carved plate. The rays are really nice looking and I think they would go from long to circular following the contours of the carve. |
|
| Author: | Ian Cunningham [ Mon Sep 12, 2011 4:46 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Flatsawn "inferior" Wood for Archtop Instruments |
I got some! It's spalted AND wormy! Talk about stability! Because it has no clue what that is.......  Pretty stuff, but it's not for anything that needs to be structurally sound. Makes sense that it would be highly undesirable unquartered. It's a real pretty wood otherwise, hence the demand. Cool tree too. |
|
| Author: | Jim Kirby [ Mon Sep 12, 2011 8:53 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Flatsawn "inferior" Wood for Archtop Instruments |
Ian Cunningham wrote: Thanks for the input thus far. I'd welcome any more experienced opinions too. Anyone have experience with Hearne Hardwoods? The selection is insane..... Hearne's is the local candy store - about 25 minutes drive from my front door. It's an excellent operation, can be a little pricey. It's a real mecca for English Sycamore (European Maple), and they are also very big on European Walnut varieties. And just generally have a lot of stuff. No concerns - good place to buy from. I've pulled a lot of my wood for necks out of their Spanish cedar pile, but this can be a painstaking hunt. They have a good eye for instrument grade wood in the exotics, so getting anything in board form is difficult, if you like resawing yourself. I've gotten some really nice Myrtle from them, but I think that was a fluke and I'd go to west coast dealers for that. |
|
| Author: | Ian Cunningham [ Mon Sep 12, 2011 9:12 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Flatsawn "inferior" Wood for Archtop Instruments |
Awesome |
|
| Author: | Lavrov Guitars [ Mon Sep 12, 2011 10:28 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Flatsawn "inferior" Wood for Archtop Instruments |
Believe it or not but check this out Ian Cunningham wrote: I got some! It's spalted AND wormy! Talk about stability! Because it has no clue what that is.......
Pretty stuff, but it's not for anything that needs to be structurally sound. Makes sense that it would be highly undesirable unquartered. It's a real pretty wood otherwise, hence the demand. Cool tree too. |
|
| Author: | Ian Cunningham [ Tue Sep 13, 2011 8:08 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Flatsawn "inferior" Wood for Archtop Instruments |
Haha that's awesome. Are you sure that's flat sawn though? Doesn't look like it. |
|
| Author: | Bryan Bear [ Tue Sep 13, 2011 9:23 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Flatsawn "inferior" Wood for Archtop Instruments |
Ian Cunningham wrote: I got some! It's spalted AND wormy! Talk about stability! . . . Pretty stuff, but it's not for anything that needs to be structurally sound. . . Ian, When you say "not for anything that needs to be structurally sound" are you referring to your sycamore -- being spalted and wormy -- or QS sycamore in general? I ask because I have a nice board that I have set aside to, some day, be a flat top mando and perhaps some ukes. I have never used it, but thought it was a decent lumber when QS. I figured it would be adequate for such small instruments; it has a nice bonk. . . |
|
| Author: | Lavrov Guitars [ Tue Sep 13, 2011 11:31 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Flatsawn "inferior" Wood for Archtop Instruments |
Ian Cunningham wrote: Haha that's awesome. Are you sure that's flat sawn though? Doesn't look like it. Not sure if it's flat or quarter, doesn't look flat to me either. But it's pretty spalted! and seems to have worked!
|
|
| Author: | Jeff Highland [ Wed Sep 14, 2011 4:37 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Flatsawn "inferior" Wood for Archtop Instruments |
The other thing to consider for prototypes etc would be using 4 piece backs with QS wood. |
|
| Author: | Ian Cunningham [ Wed Sep 14, 2011 6:49 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Flatsawn "inferior" Wood for Archtop Instruments |
Now THAT is an excellent idea I have not even considered! If I were in close proximity to to you at this moment I would happily buy you a drink of your choice! Thank you sir!  ![[:Y:]](./images/smilies/smiley20.gif "Thumbs Up")
|
|
| Author: | truckjohn [ Thu Sep 15, 2011 12:25 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Flatsawn "inferior" Wood for Archtop Instruments |
Turns out that literally almost any wood you can think of could be used to make instruments.... We use the whole range of woods out there - from mushy wet cardboard like Spalted mango or Balsa to hard as steel like Pau Ferro and some of the other "Ironwoods"..... The answer really is - if you want to build a guitar, don't let the wood become your obstacle.... Make it out of whatever you can get your hands on... So long as it's good and dry - It will be fine... Literally... People have built entire guitars out of Spruce and guitars out of Cedar.... Yes - including the neck, back, sides... The whole shebang... Bob Bendetto famously built one of his archtops - including the top completely out of knotty pine shelf boards.... Bob Taylor built the famous Pallet Guitar out of Fir, Oak, Hickory, and Poplar out of shipping pallets... I am in the process of making a 4-string Tenor guitar using pallet wood for the sides and 6-pc back, a piece of a broken mahogany bookshelf shelf for the neck, and a piece of a broken 2x4 for the 6-pc top.. - all of it scavenged out of dumpsters.... Don't let the wood stop you.... Thanks |
|
| Page 1 of 1 | All times are UTC - 5 hours |
| Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group http://www.phpbb.com/ |
|