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Laguna - the Reference Standard for Garbage Saw Blades
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Author:  Tony_in_NYC [ Sat Sep 17, 2011 6:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Laguna - the Reference Standard for Garbage Saw Blades

Are you saying I should NOT get this blade? I'm reading between the lines here but that is the impression I'm getting.
What a sucky day for you. I hate getting poor quality stuff.

Author:  Bobc [ Sat Sep 17, 2011 7:02 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Laguna - the Reference Standard for Garbage Saw Blades

Filippo Morelli wrote:
Okay ... I'm going to provide the straight up "here's how it is" story. For those who are weak of stomach when anything gets critical input, do us a favor and just skip my post - Press Here To Leave.

Laguna is complete CRAP. Nothing perturbs me more than being someone else's R&D department, not getting paid for it and further having paid FOR JUNK.

We bought two 1" carbide tipped Laguna Resaw King blades. Todd had to send his back to be resharpened when it was brand new - after we spent hours trying to solve the problem on the saw. You assume it is your error, not the manufacturer. Well after wrangling with Laguna, paying to send a blade back, Todd received a blade that ... surprise surprise ... was sharp!

So now I go to set up my 1" blade. The night before I had sliced 20 Gabon Ebony head plates 4" tall resaw with an inexpensive 3/8" Diamond Saw Works steel blade ($13 blade). No problem. But to do the ebony fretboards, I wanted tighter tolerances and a better cut with less cleanup as the wood is expensive and yield matters. So I spend about 45 minutes setting up the Laguna Resaw King blade, double checking everything, cleaning everything up. Lo and behold I can not get a straight cut with a dog slow feed rate. In fact, the saw is loading up (it's a 220V) and the motor bogs down. Folks this is a 5 1/2" tall block of ebony. I cut 2" ... and caused that. I had 0.040" walk in those 2". Definition of slow: 2" cut took about 30 seconds.

So I post a thread on the OLF asking about my setup. I get back that the Laguna Resaw King doesn't do ebony well.

Okay. So I have birdseye maple fretboards to cut as well. They are a 2 1/2" tall resaw. Line one of those up ... SAME THING ... the Laguna Resaw King fights to cut and walks. Folks THIS IS A NEW BLADE.

So I've got wood which I can likely save (the cuts didn't go too far), and half a day's worth of debugging to have me conclude that Laguna sells JUNK. For those of you that got lucky with something that works. My hats off to you. Go buy a lottery ticket as it must have been your lucky day. We've got two strikes. I would like to chuck this piece of trash in the garbage, which I just might do. Unfortunately I can not afford to sink $120+ into another blade right now, and if I call Laguna the Italian in my will be compelled to tell them the whole story and then ask them what they believe this says about their competency with saw blades at this point.

JUNK.

Filippo


Filippo I have been saying this for quite some time but all I get in reply is how great the blade is. I have thrown a few in the garbage and have a couple more to throw out yet. STUPID ME I kept blaming myself too. Any hard wood will destroy this blade in seconds. Try re-sawing bubinga or any of the harder woods! Resharpened blades take a few seconds longer!

Author:  Don Williams [ Sat Sep 17, 2011 7:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Laguna - the Reference Standard for Garbage Saw Blades

For starters, the RK is NOT a carbide blade. It might be carbide impregnated, but they don't make a claim (at least they didn't in the past) that it was. Ebony will dull those things lickety split, as will Bubinga and BRW. It is by far the best blade I've ever used for Mahogany though. You probably dulled it trying to slice the ebony, and then it's simply not going to cut the maple either. This is not your fault, it's Laguna's for putting out a blade that seems to be capable of doing work that it can't stand up to. That said, knowing what a blade can and cannot do is what it's all about. As I said, I've resawn mahogany with those and had it come off the saw looking planed, but I won't use it for much else.

Author:  Jason [ Sat Sep 17, 2011 7:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Laguna - the Reference Standard for Garbage Saw Blades

Buy one Lenox Tri-Master 2/3 Variable TPI blade. You'll never go back, and unless you hit a nail or something else with it you'll be hard pressed to wear it out.

Author:  Bobc [ Sat Sep 17, 2011 7:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Laguna - the Reference Standard for Garbage Saw Blades

Don Williams wrote:
For starters, the RK is NOT a carbide blade. It might be carbide impregnated, but they don't make a claim (at least they didn't in the past) that it was. Ebony will dull those things lickety split, as will Bubinga and BRW. It is by far the best blade I've ever used for Mahogany though. You probably dulled it trying to slice the ebony, and then it's simply not going to cut the maple either. This is not your fault, it's Laguna's for putting out a blade that seems to be capable of doing work that it can't stand up to. That said, knowing what a blade can and cannot do is what it's all about. As I said, I've resawn mahogany with those and had it come off the saw looking planed, but I won't use it for much else.


Don your right on the mahogany. Cuts like a dream but who the hell wants to keep changing blades with different woods. Most folks can't afford a $200 mahogany blade. :D Laguna claims the re-saw king that has C-8 carbide teeth.

Author:  Mike OMelia [ Sat Sep 17, 2011 8:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Laguna - the Reference Standard for Garbage Saw Blades

My RK rocks for my purposes. Price is right. Did u talk to Tim Lory?

I really want to help.

Mike

Author:  Mike OMelia [ Sat Sep 17, 2011 8:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Laguna - the Reference Standard for Garbage Saw Blades

Though I have never used one, I have never heard anything but praise for the Lenox Tri. It's expensive, but for the $$ u should expect stunning results. I know the RK is way less. May not be reasonable to expect Tri results with a blade 1/3 the price. For hog, maple, and so on, RK is quite good.

Author:  Brad Goodman [ Sat Sep 17, 2011 8:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Laguna - the Reference Standard for Garbage Saw Blades

Filippo,
I feel your pain...

Don't get me started about Laguna.

Before I ever got to use a blade I had to deal with a burnt out (Italian) motor that came with the saw..
Nothing like a $4000. saw that doesn't work!

Even the next motor they gave me sucked-so I limped along for years until I finally (after 5 years) got them to sell me a Baldor motor for cost ($200.) they originally wanted to charge me $550. for a motor,even though they new the original Italian motors were defective ( the motor would just hum untill you started the blade by pulling it with your hand-then it would work but you had to baby it a little or you would stall the motor.

I have the 24" Laguna saw. When I first got it about 7 years ago I tried the "resaw queen" blade and had a very similar,experience. -The blade dulled in minutes and ruined some good wood..so I sent it back to Laguna (thinking I did something wrong) and paid to have them sharpen it.

So...I put the blade back on the saw ,started cutting and the blade snapped!! It did NOT break on the weld!!


So I threw it in the garbage where it belonged, got myself a Lenox tri master and have cut hundreds upon hundreds of sets.and we all lived happily ever after.The end..

Author:  Ian Cunningham [ Sat Sep 17, 2011 9:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Laguna - the Reference Standard for Garbage Saw Blades

You're public service announcement is much appreciated. Even in rant form.

Does anyone have experience with the resaw blades that Lee Valley sell?

Author:  Mike OMelia [ Sat Sep 17, 2011 9:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Laguna - the Reference Standard for Garbage Saw Blades

Bob, what is your favorite Resaw blade?

Mike

Author:  Bobc [ Sat Sep 17, 2011 9:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Laguna - the Reference Standard for Garbage Saw Blades

Mike O'Melia wrote:
Bob, what is your favorite Resaw blade?

Mike

Mike I have settled on the Lenox Woodmaster CT. It's a good blade for the variety of woods that I cut. I have used just about every blade out there and this works for me.

Author:  John Arnold [ Sat Sep 17, 2011 9:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Laguna - the Reference Standard for Garbage Saw Blades

Quote:
My resharpened saw blade has worked well for woods other than rosewoods, where the self-feeding geometry is an issue.

My only experience with high hook-angle blades are the 3" Hitachi stellite tipped. That was the saw that Ted Davis used. At the time, we were cutting a lot of green red spruce, and I was using $10 Simonds 1" X 5/8" pitch steel blades. I found that although they were a bit thicker kerf, the service life was about 65% of the Hitachi, for less than 1/10 the cost.
Theoretically, the thinner, higher-hook-angle blades use less horsepower and less feeding force, but in practice, I found very little difference. The main difference was the cost of the blades. Ted finally converted to using the Simonds blades and never looked back.
For resawing dry woods, I use Suffolk Machinery (Timber Wolf) 3/4 X 3 TPI Alternate Set-Special, which is designed for veneer cutting. It is a 0.025" thick band, with about 0.045" kerf. In the 111" length, those blades are around $24 apiece. I have cut thousands of sets and tops, from spruce to mahogany to Brazilian ebony. The most important factor is practice....the more time you spend learning your saw and the blade you are using, the better.
Everyone can make a bad blade. Whenever I install a new one, I make some test cuts to see how it is doing. In some cases, a bad blade can be worked with, but on rare occasions, it goes straight to the trash. Suffolk has been good enough to replace a few of the bad ones.

Author:  Mike OMelia [ Sat Sep 17, 2011 9:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Laguna - the Reference Standard for Garbage Saw Blades

That's CT for carbide tip, right? What is the average price? Hast to be less than the Tri.

Mike

Author:  Mike OMelia [ Sat Sep 17, 2011 10:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Laguna - the Reference Standard for Garbage Saw Blades

Fillipo, I understand that you have a valid gripe with Laguna. However, my experience has been quite the opposite. Yeah, I know , goody for me. However, I developed a good working relationship with Tim Lory at Laguna and have nothing but good things to say. Yet, for a while, Tim took a job somewhere else and during that time, I lost confidence in Laguna... Seems the replacement dude was more interested in his wrestling career. But then Tim came back. Since then, all is good for me. Using a forum like this to carry out a gripe attack, while perhaps deserved, seems outside the bounds of what this site is all about. Just saying. What u r saying will not convince me to stop dealing with Tim.

Mike

Author:  Kim [ Sat Sep 17, 2011 10:17 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Laguna - the Reference Standard for Garbage Saw Blades

I think when it comes down to allowing a voice of 'experience' to be your guide its very difficult to ignore Bob Ceflu's input...if Bob reckons there is a problem with any bandsaw blade then that is good enough for me to accept as fact.

The only thing I will add is that those with smaller saws, say 14" and under, should consider whether or not 'any' CT tipped blade is right for them. Yes the tipped teeth give very long service, but the tighter radius which the band must follow on smaller machines can cause metal fatigue which can result in the band reaching its service life long before the carbide teeth do.

Cheers

Kim

Author:  Jason [ Sat Sep 17, 2011 10:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Laguna - the Reference Standard for Garbage Saw Blades

Mike O'Melia wrote:
That's CT for carbide tip, right? What is the average price? Hast to be less than the Tri.

Mike


We went with the Tri because you can't(or at least couldn't) get a variable tooth in the 1" Woodmaster..The variable tooth keeps the blade from wandering/"chattering" in heavily figured wood. I realize my needs are a little different than most of yours production/speed wise but as far as an all around performer we haven't come across anything better and we've been doing this a long time. Our process is a little different than most but we get over 1000 passes/cuts with a blade on heavily figured maple, when it gets a little dull for cutting backs it's still good for several hours cutting 5-6" sides.

Depending on your setup the woodmaster might even work better, I don't really know. What I do know is blade cost should be a secondary concern. Don't have to screw up many figured/exotic sets to make up the difference between a cheap blade and a $300 CT blade.

Author:  WudWerkr [ Sat Sep 17, 2011 11:06 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Laguna - the Reference Standard for Garbage Saw Blades

DELETED !!

Author:  Bobc [ Sat Sep 17, 2011 11:55 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Laguna - the Reference Standard for Garbage Saw Blades

Todd Stock wrote:
The Woodmaster CT runs about $110 for a 142" blade from Spectrum Supply. The RKs we bought were $75 per (2 for 1), so I expect about $150 per for a 142" blade. The Trimaster in 1" 2/3 is about $200.


Todd I'm pretty sure that the blades Laguna is selling for 2 for 1 is their old stock. They changed tooth design and tip material several years ago and have been selling off all the old coils. The old blades were not carbide tip but some type of hardened steel. The new blades are $1.73 per in. or $245.66 for a 142" blade. Please correct me if I am wrong.

Author:  Bobc [ Sun Sep 18, 2011 12:12 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Laguna - the Reference Standard for Garbage Saw Blades

Filippo Morelli wrote:
Suffolk Machinery, whose blades I've been quite pleased, has had a carbide tipped 1" blade for about 2 years. I've not purchased this particular blade. Has anyone used it? And I agree with Kim ... if Uncle Bob calls it then that's good by me, so the CT is an obvious choice.

Filippo


Filippo I have used the Suffolk CT blade. It is comparable to the Lenox Trimaster CT. Both are very good blades. The problem I have with these blades is the tooth pattern. When cutting oily woods like cocobolo the tooth spacing doesn't clear the dust fast enough. It builds between the blade and the wood pushing the wood away from the blade. Not good for expensive wood. :D
The Woodmaster has deeper gullets and wider tooth spacing that helps clear that oily sawdust from the kerf. The cut is not as smooth but we sand all our sets anyway so I'm more concerned with uniformity of the cut. We don't have the time to nurse thru a cut. They work just fine in Maple and most other woods. Again I think the Trimaster and Suffolk are very good blades. They're just not the best choice for us.

Author:  Link Van Cleave [ Sun Sep 18, 2011 1:19 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Laguna - the Reference Standard for Garbage Saw Blades

Filippo,
I have had the same experience. A friend with a 30" Fay and Egan (that I helped him set up and is running perfectly) got a couple of those blades. We couldn't cut butter with the things. POS. Was ridiculous.
I have stuck with the Lenox bi-metal blades and have never had a problem with wandering cuts even when ridiculously dull. I may bite the bullet some day and get a tri-master but for now I am happy with the bi-metal Lenox.
L.

Author:  Don Williams [ Sun Sep 18, 2011 6:42 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Laguna - the Reference Standard for Garbage Saw Blades

I repeat....in spite of what some people think, the Resaw King blade is NOT carbide. It is a tool steel tip that is welded on. Otherwise, it wouldn't need to be sharpened constantly. I've tried numerous times to get a straight answer from Laguna about what the teeth are, and nobody seemed to have a good answer there. They used to list a designation of "C8 Steel" on their website, but that is long gone. IMHO, they were screwing the general public falsely advertising the blade as something that it wasn't. Sort of like the crap tools they are selling at Woodcraft these days for enormous dollars...

Author:  klooker [ Sun Sep 18, 2011 8:46 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Laguna - the Reference Standard for Garbage Saw Blades

+10^23 on the Woodmaster CT (the one with the coarser pitch)

Doesn't help with your current situation, but maybe next time.

Kevin Looker

Author:  Chas Freeborn [ Sun Sep 18, 2011 10:11 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Laguna - the Reference Standard for Garbage Saw Blades

I'll say it again. Lennox 3/4 Vari TPI Bi-Metal for re-sawing, 6TPI for general work. All from Hastings Saw in Santa Rosa CA.
-C

Author:  WudWerkr [ Sun Sep 18, 2011 10:22 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Laguna - the Reference Standard for Garbage Saw Blades

sits listening to the conversation , grinning. :D

Author:  Bobc [ Sun Sep 18, 2011 11:08 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Laguna - the Reference Standard for Garbage Saw Blades

Chas Freeborn wrote:
I'll say it again. Lennox 3/4 Vari TPI Bi-Metal for re-sawing, 6TPI for general work. All from Hastings Saw in Santa Rosa CA.
-C


I like this blade. It will re-saw even the most stubborn woods.

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