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| The Travelling Apprentice http://luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=33833 |
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| Author: | Ian Cunningham [ Mon Oct 10, 2011 4:50 pm ] |
| Post subject: | The Travelling Apprentice |
Had a thought that I might want to do some traveling sometime before I get established anywhere, but was wondering how I'd be able to do that and still keep working, and it hit me. Why not spend that time staying at/near luthiers and use their shop when I need to? That could in fact judge where I go next, go to North Carolina a few months, then Minnesota, then Texas, Canada etc. I think that would be brilliant, but how many of you would consider having someone taking up your shop space? I doubt it would amount to an apprenticeship per say, as I don't really need to be taught anything, just need power tools every so often. And maybe I'm a bit naive about the whole concept of "living abroad" for a while, but I think it'd be a fun thing to think about and maybe do. I am NOT asking for invitations, just wondering what the general consensus is as far as having some guy hanging around your shop using your band saw or something. |
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| Author: | John Killin [ Mon Oct 10, 2011 7:38 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The Travelling Apprentice |
My tip if you are going to Minnesota is that you will need a coat and some boots. Then think about some warmer clothes once July ends.  Seriously if you can pull it off this sounds like one of those adventures that could work when you are young. I would think about scheduling some class time with some established luthiers that offer that sort of thing. Good planning could make this a worthwhile endeavor. |
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| Author: | alan stassforth [ Mon Oct 10, 2011 9:34 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The Travelling Apprentice |
I think it's a great idea. You could come here and learn how not to do things! Or, do them twice. |
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| Author: | WudWerkr [ Mon Oct 10, 2011 9:39 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The Travelling Apprentice |
use my tools ... no problem ..... get into my beer ? wellllll maybe we need to talk !
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| Author: | Stuart Gort [ Mon Oct 10, 2011 11:01 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The Travelling Apprentice |
Um....no. Trying to put my finger on it and I think the reason is this simple: You want to live free while I pay for the shop. Now if you want to wash my car...shovel snow...ect. maybe we can talk. 
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| Author: | Jim_H [ Mon Oct 10, 2011 11:05 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The Travelling Apprentice |
How are you lawn mowing skills? |
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| Author: | theguitarwhisperer [ Mon Oct 10, 2011 11:59 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The Travelling Apprentice |
You're more than welcome to hang out and spend an afternoon chit-chatting. |
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| Author: | the Padma [ Tue Oct 11, 2011 12:13 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The Travelling Apprentice |
. First hour is free, I'll even make tea. After that my hourly shop rate applies and no you don't get to touch the tools. blessings  PadmaPS Is strange, me don't get very many visitors....but sure do get a lot of work done. Oh well. |
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| Author: | Tai Fu [ Tue Oct 11, 2011 2:59 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The Travelling Apprentice |
Ian Cunningham wrote: Had a thought that I might want to do some traveling sometime before I get established anywhere, but was wondering how I'd be able to do that and still keep working, and it hit me. Why not spend that time staying at/near luthiers and use their shop when I need to? That could in fact judge where I go next, go to North Carolina a few months, then Minnesota, then Texas, Canada etc. I think that would be brilliant, but how many of you would consider having someone taking up your shop space? I doubt it would amount to an apprenticeship per say, as I don't really need to be taught anything, just need power tools every so often. And maybe I'm a bit naive about the whole concept of "living abroad" for a while, but I think it'd be a fun thing to think about and maybe do. I am NOT asking for invitations, just wondering what the general consensus is as far as having some guy hanging around your shop using your band saw or something. I tried that, still doing it now but will return home in a few days. The problem is finding luthiers without advanced searching, and if you're going to a foreign country, then it is even harder to find a luthier to work with because of language difficulties, and not all of them will speak any English. Furthermore I really feel the money you would have spent traveling would be much better spent buying the necessary tools needed and learn your chop by fixing or building stuff, that's how I learned most of my chops. You'll be surprised how much you learn from building your first instrument, be it acoustic or electric or even a ukelele. If you can't get a proper shop space then get a slightly larger flat and turn one room into your workshop. Another option, although it will cost more money is to attend luthier courses if you can't learn on your own... but I really felt those money is better spent buying tools and wood... |
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| Author: | Colin S [ Tue Oct 11, 2011 4:12 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The Travelling Apprentice |
What about insurance? In the litigious days that we live in now I wouldn't let anyone else use my tools. Colin |
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| Author: | Tai Fu [ Tue Oct 11, 2011 4:36 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The Travelling Apprentice |
Colin S wrote: What about insurance? In the litigious days that we live in now I wouldn't let anyone else use my tools. Colin In that case it may be best to travel to a foreign country... they don't sue for stupid reason there. |
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| Author: | yukonarizona [ Tue Oct 11, 2011 7:26 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The Travelling Apprentice |
What kind of barter do you suggest in exchange for shop time? |
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| Author: | ernie [ Tue Oct 11, 2011 8:18 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The Travelling Apprentice |
As the kings wise men proclaimed . The secret to life . There is no free lunch. 
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| Author: | Herr Dalbergia [ Tue Oct 11, 2011 10:23 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The Travelling Apprentice |
I have never seen a guitarmakers workshop where space was unused. I worked with (FOR) Ervin Somogyi. I was allowed to have a nice small room in his workshop where I could sleep, and the daytime, working-time I OF COURSE worked for his guitars, not for mine....In the evenings thats something different. So when you are in Germany , give me a call..... |
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| Author: | Tai Fu [ Tue Oct 11, 2011 10:39 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The Travelling Apprentice |
Herr Dalbergia wrote: I have never seen a guitarmakers workshop where space was unused. I worked with (FOR) Ervin Somogyi. I was allowed to have a nice small room in his workshop where I could sleep, and the daytime, working-time I OF COURSE worked for his guitars, not for mine....In the evenings thats something different. So when you are in Germany , give me a call..... By the way, are you anywhere near Berlin? |
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| Author: | Stuart Gort [ Tue Oct 11, 2011 11:00 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The Travelling Apprentice |
the Padma wrote: . First hour is free, I'll even make tea. Don't drink the tea. |
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| Author: | Ian Cunningham [ Tue Oct 11, 2011 11:03 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The Travelling Apprentice |
Okay so it's a silly idea. I think if my circumstances permitted it I could pull it off though, I just won't plan on "making it work". Thanks guys. I appreciate your input. ![[:Y:]](./images/smilies/smiley20.gif "Thumbs Up")
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| Author: | truckjohn [ Tue Oct 11, 2011 11:20 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The Travelling Apprentice |
I think what you will run into is the timeframe 1-2 months is just not enough unless literally all you want is a warm body to lift things or sweep floors..... You just won't learn to do much useful for your employer within that time frame.... Think of the stuff they bring in short term Unskilled Temps for.... Now... Think of what they bring in highly skilled short term temps for..... Totally different realm.... Now... If you have some chops... Maybe there could be a place for you where you were an immediate contributor - like say if you were really good at finishing instruments or carving necks...... but... When you say the word "Apprentice" - it pegs you as the fellow who probably has great expectations but can't do anything useful right now.... So you tie up nearly 100% of the master's time... and just as you are maybe getting semi-productive at that first thing - off you go somewhere new.... If you could change your time committment to 2-4 years, and change your goal from "traveling" apprentice to "Achieve Journeyman Guitar Maker" status.... it would probably be a different story.... Those first few months would be lost - but your abilities progress as time and work goes on.... eventually, you become a contributor... if only in that 1 specific area at first.... As you learn more and more - you progress through the phases of Apprentice into Journeyman where you can do the whole job from start to finish every time without any problems.... And you can do it to meet the Master's specifications every time.... This is the real goal where you become a "Useful" employee.... Just something to think about.... Thanks |
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| Author: | stan thomison [ Tue Oct 11, 2011 11:32 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The Travelling Apprentice |
Having been an "apprentice" it can be a great way to learn. First of all I don't know what your skills are, and therefore not know if you really don't need to be taught anything. Maybe you don't need to learn, if that is the case, you don't need to do an apprenticeship and have the chops to do it on your own. That is how many who have made it in this business did it. So not needing to learn, maybe you would be better off investing in what it takes to open a shop on a pro basis and compete. You then can take on others who want to just use your shop for tools and not give back to the shop. One thing from my experiences and talking to others who have successful shops it is a matter what can one bring to be of value to the shop and builder, not what the builder can give fully do for the "apprentice" or someone to use tools and shop. They are not interested in supplying a person to do their own stuff and compete with them. One of the shops I worked and still a very good friend and mentor did give me the use of the shop and even materials to work on thing, but the idea is to be of value to them and their shop. They may make some sort of arrangement for you, but the idea of going in a few months or whatever, do your own work isn't why the hire you. They want folks who can be of value, work for a longer period of time, and at the same time learn the craft. They will want someone who is willing to do it their way. One earns the right to get to do some of their own stuff in most shops. That takes time, effort and trust. They want you to "learn" to do it the way the do. As the boss told me many time, he did it a certain way and from his success, it is a pretty good way. It is still their name on the label and at the shows, You might get this done, but bet it would be more on you paying them for use, not them paying you for use. The other thing is many have limited space and that all important thing in any shop, TIME. Why would they invest in you or anyone to get nothing back? How much is their time worth per hour or whatever, particularly when they are needing to get their product out, which is the reason they take one on in the first place. More people means less space and time for them. If one isn't a value to them, they don't need someone. These are things the pros look at when they consider taking on an apprentice or whatever may want to call the position. That is why these things are not out there in multitudes |
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| Author: | Tai Fu [ Tue Oct 11, 2011 11:35 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The Travelling Apprentice |
Like I said, the money is better spent buying tools and materials so you can get some hands on time... |
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| Author: | the Padma [ Tue Oct 11, 2011 11:46 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The Travelling Apprentice |
Zlurgh wrote: the Padma wrote: . First hour is free, I'll even make tea. Don't drink the tea. Funny Zlurgh, very funny  Its not me tea they should be worrying about....but then neophytes and initiates don't get served any of me beer. ![[uncle]](./images/smilies/surrenderflagqv6.gif "Uncle")
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| Author: | jeb98 [ Tue Oct 11, 2011 1:06 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The Travelling Apprentice |
I think it's an interesting idea. But I think it needs to be one of two things. Either your a highly skilled luthier (maybe even a world class luthier) who can bounce ideas and techniques off of the person you are staying with, or you are an apprentice who is willing to learn from the person you are staying with and also help them with their workflow. Saying, "I don't really need to be taught anything", well then you are just really just renting their workspace. Some folks may be super excited about having someone come to use their workshops with no reciprocation of either labor or money. But then again, there are some really really friendly people who may be willing to give an opportunity to a budding luthier. You just need to clearly define what you are trying to accomplish here. Is it a free vacation or is it an opportunity to learn from a variety of luthiers with a variety of building techniques... because that could be really interesting. Jonas |
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| Author: | Ian Cunningham [ Tue Oct 11, 2011 2:01 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The Travelling Apprentice |
I think many of you misunderstood the point of this. Like I said, I don't really need to learn anything, as I'm gaining experience on my own and by the time I start this I'll have enough experience under my belt to where I could build something nice with no supervision. My whole goal was to see more of the world and keep good company along the way, while still being able to do what I love, and in fact letting that guide my travels. If I did do this, which I'm about convinced it's just not a good idea, I would do what I could to compensate for the bother of having me over for the few times that a band saw or drill press would be needed. I would have my hand tools packed up and I would find some other space to do the rest if I needed. Even that aspect of this whole thing would probably not work, but I may find a way to figure it out anyway. This whole thing most likely wouldn't work the way I originally envisioned it, if at all, but I have gotten the answers I need so I will carry on. |
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| Author: | PT66 [ Tue Oct 11, 2011 2:03 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The Travelling Apprentice |
"as I don't really need to be taught anything" I have been building instruments for nearly 50 years and I still have a lot to learn. |
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| Author: | Pat Hawley [ Tue Oct 11, 2011 2:28 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: The Travelling Apprentice |
Not to hi-jack the thread but it did get me thinking of an alternative. I wonder if it would be possible to be a nomadic luthier. Could a functional work shop be made to fit in a stripped-down RV or an RV with some sort of extension tent? Then you could travel the country, making periodic stops to build and perhaps teach, leaving guitars along the way. Not my kind of lifestyle but for someone with wanderlust, it might be a way to see the country and get yourself and your guitars known at the same time. Pat |
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