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Bending Sycamore
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Author:  j42c7j [ Fri Dec 02, 2011 1:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Bending Sycamore
Any advice on bending quartersawn sycamore would be appriciated. Thickness, temp., amount of water etc. The first attempt with .110 and 300 degrees and a light spritz of water resulted in splitting. The second attempt with .100 at 400 degrees and no water was worse. This wood seems to be about the same hardness and density as average mahogany, with the heavy fleck and figure you get with quartered sycamore. Thanks in advance.
Author:  John Coloccia [ Fri Dec 02, 2011 1:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bending Sycamore
j42c7j wrote:
Any advice on bending quartersawn sycamore would be appriciated. Thickness, temp., amount of water etc. The first attempt with .110 and 300 degrees and a light spritz of water resulted in splitting. The second attempt with .100 at 400 degrees and no water was worse. This wood seems to be about the same hardness and density as average mahogany, with the heavy fleck and figure you get with quartered sycamore. Thanks in advance.


Funny...you know I just played a sycamore OM guitar yesterday at Cumpiano's shop. Even the neck was sycamore. Sounded VERY nice, actually.
Author:  Quine [ Fri Dec 02, 2011 1:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bending Sycamore
Sounds too thick to me. I usually bend at 0.08" - 0.085" for typical guitars. For tight bends like ukulele waists, I thin that area to 0.07"

I hope you'll post some pics of that sycamore...I've been interested in trying for a while now
Author:  Chris Ensor [ Fri Dec 02, 2011 1:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bending Sycamore
I have used sycamore as binding and/or purfling before. I found when bending that if it is too wet, it will separate along grain lines VERY easily. Also, it sounds to me that you are bending a bit thick. I have only bent it at around .080 and with some patience, it worked out just fine.
Author:  Bryan Bear [ Fri Dec 02, 2011 2:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bending Sycamore
Quine wrote:
I hope you'll post some pics of that sycamore...I've been interested in trying for a while now


Quine,

Do you already have a sycamore set? Last summer I bought a nice long board of quartered American sycamore wide enough for uke sets. I have plenty for my needs. If you are interested (and I can get it resawn in time) I can bring you a set and maybe enough to do a neck to the gathering this spring. Let me know if you are interested.
Author:  j42c7j [ Fri Dec 02, 2011 3:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bending Sycamore
John Coloccia wrote:
j42c7j wrote:
Any advice on bending quartersawn sycamore would be appriciated. Thickness, temp., amount of water etc. The first attempt with .110 and 300 degrees and a light spritz of water resulted in splitting. The second attempt with .100 at 400 degrees and no water was worse. This wood seems to be about the same hardness and density as average mahogany, with the heavy fleck and figure you get with quartered sycamore. Thanks in advance.


Funny...you know I just played a sycamore OM guitar yesterday at Cumpiano's shop. Even the neck was sycamore. Sounded VERY nice, actually.



I guess if both Cumpiano and Santa Cruz think it's good enough to build with, then it's worth trying [:Y:]
Author:  j42c7j [ Fri Dec 02, 2011 3:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bending Sycamore
Quine wrote:
Sounds too thick to me. I usually bend at 0.08" - 0.085" for typical guitars. For tight bends like ukulele waists, I thin that area to 0.07"

I hope you'll post some pics of that sycamore...I've been interested in trying for a while now



Sure, we'll post pics on our website when it's finished: jagercustomacoustics.com


So, the consensus seems to be that we need to try and go thinner. Sounds like good advice, thanks for your input everyone. Very appriciated [:Y:]
Author:  Rick Davis [ Fri Dec 02, 2011 3:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bending Sycamore
I found that sycamore generally bends like butter. Not a lot of water, moderate temps. It will scorch fairly easily.
Author:  ernie [ Fri Dec 02, 2011 4:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bending Sycamore
My bsmt in fall and summer is abt 55-60 % humidity . I bend sycamore dry at 2.5mm or abt .100. at 250-275 deg F, higher they burn . The night before I bend, I have the sides on the bsmt cement floor soaking up some moisture. I bend 1 at a time as bender is only 4 in wide. I let it thoroughly cool before putting in mold. If not 1/4 sawn the sides have a tendency to curl slightly.
Author:  Bryan Bear [ Fri Dec 02, 2011 4:36 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bending Sycamore
John Coloccia wrote:
Funny...you know I just played a sycamore OM guitar yesterday at Cumpiano's shop. Even the neck was sycamore. Sounded VERY nice, actually.


John, was this a steel string? Was the neck solid sycamore or laminated with something stiffer? Do you know if it had any other reinforcement? I've been wondering if sycamore would be stiff and stable enough for a neck.
Author:  John Coloccia [ Fri Dec 02, 2011 5:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bending Sycamore
Bryan Bear wrote:
John Coloccia wrote:
Funny...you know I just played a sycamore OM guitar yesterday at Cumpiano's shop. Even the neck was sycamore. Sounded VERY nice, actually.


John, was this a steel string? Was the neck solid sycamore or laminated with something stiffer? Do you know if it had any other reinforcement? I've been wondering if sycamore would be stiff and stable enough for a neck.


It was a steel string but I didn't really ask him that much about it. He was kind of showing it off a bit and made a point of mentioning the neck was sycamore. I think he would have said, "Hey, John...even the neck is Sycamore. I put some reinforcements in it, though", and he didn't so I just assumed it's straight sycamore. There were no visible laminations that I saw although to be honest, if there were some fine stripes down the back I'm not sure I would have noticed as I was having too much fun playing it :)

As it was, all he really said was, "Try not to hit the top with your pick". LOL. Quite a stunning instrument, as are all his instruments, though this one had a rather wide neck. Send him an e-mail and ask him about.

He has a bunch of instruments in the white, made of all sorts of different woods, and it looks like a rainbow of colors :) I think he'd make a guitar out of cardboard if he could find a nice piece, and I'm sure it would look and sound great.
Author:  WaddyThomson [ Fri Dec 02, 2011 8:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bending Sycamore
I have only bent one Sycamore set, but it bent easily. I bent dry at about 250* or so. I did put a wet paper towel on the pipe when I was bending the waist to keep from scorching the outside of the sides. However, I got no scorching anywhere with or without the wet paper towel. It bent like butter. Very easy. The only problem I had was that after I quit bending, it kept bending, and I had to do some light straightening out to get it to fit the top right.
Author:  crazicarl [ Fri Dec 02, 2011 10:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bending Sycamore
I just read an article about the properties of sycamore. It mentioned the it's got a good history in instruments, but that it's a pain to plain? Did you run into that? Just curious, 'cause I'm into using our native woods.

Not to divert too much, but did you guys now that persimmon is in the ebony family? Weird, huh?
Author:  YJ John [ Sat Dec 03, 2011 2:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bending Sycamore
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I found it very easy to bend and sand. I didn't try a Plane on it, it went through the Jet 10/20 great. The look is fabulous. I finished this Adi/ Sycamore/Maple necked 00 and she sounded dead and lifeless as I had predicted based on a few Luthiers opinions about the wood. Folks throw around the phrase "sounds like wet cardboard". 2nd build I figured why not pretty? So, off in a case she went for a few months. BOY did I get a pleasant surprise when I pulled her out! A deep, woody tone with medium fall off is coming out of her now. I am very pleased with her
Author:  j42c7j [ Sun Dec 04, 2011 7:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bending Sycamore
crazicarl wrote:
I just read an article about the properties of sycamore. It mentioned the it's got a good history in instruments, but that it's a pain to plain? Did you run into that? Just curious, 'cause I'm into using our native woods.

Not to divert too much, but did you guys now that persimmon is in the ebony family? Weird, huh?



Yeah, actually it did have some gouging when run through the planer. I just left it a little thick before puting it through the sander.

BTW, when thinned to .080, it still split on the part of the side that would be where the neck body joint is which wasn't even bent. Other than a small split in some figured Makore, this is the only wood we've ever had problem bending.
Author:  Clinchriver [ Sun Dec 04, 2011 7:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bending Sycamore
I bent mine at .090 piece of cake. Mine is dead on quarter.
Author:  j42c7j [ Sun Dec 04, 2011 9:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Bending Sycamore
Clinchriver wrote:
I bent mine at .090 piece of cake. Mine is dead on quarter.



Yeah, it seems like generally people haven't had a problem bending it. I don't know if we're doing something wrong or it's some funky wood. Maybe stiffer than most sycamore which would be a good thing. As far as I know most people say less moisture should be used with highly figured wood, but maybe I'll try to bend it a little wetter, or try supersoft. Maybe I need an improvement in technique. It's not very expensive wood so a few ruined pieces isn't a disaster.
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