Official Luthiers Forum! :: View topic - Pore Filling Questions!

I prefer System 3 simply because it is water clear. Makes it more forgiving when sanding back, but yes the trade is finicky mix ratios. Although a decent, small digital pocket scale can be bought for less than $20 which makes accurate mixing real easy. 10g resin, 4.4g hardener (with system 3, not Z-poxy) makes about 1/2 oz of epoxy, enough to easily coat a guitar.

Hey, Jonathan,
You are the only one who can answer your own question, because the method that looks and works best is so very subjective for every builder. I recommend you get several pieces of scrap and experiment on them with pore fillers, epoxy, oil and sanding dust, etc. etc. etc., including every other recipe you have ever studied. Then see which of those methods works best for YOU. That's the only way you will ever know which one works the best in terms of your own artistic sensibilities.

If you listen to all the rest of us, you will only be hearing what works best for us, and you will find many varied answers there, because it's subjective for us, too.

Press on, do your experimenting, and you will come out just fine!

Patrick

Anybody use the micro bead filler from LMI?
I started my first pore filling with shellac and pumice,
and it is taking forever,
on not that porous of a wood.
gaah

Hmm.. I'm intrigued by the thought of CA pore filling.

Has anyone done a t00t on it, or know of a youtube demonstration?

Jim, the way I do it, there's not much to it; apply it straight from the bottle, use kitchen towel to wipe it around, and GET OUT OF THE ROOM!

Use a good respirator, goggles, gloves, and preferably an exhaust fan, or open a door or a window, you get the idea. Did I mention the stuff REEKS?! Once cured, sand back to bare wood, and apply again if necessary, sand back again, do some drop fills and spot sanding etc until you have a perfectly (ha!) level surface, with the CA only in the pores. From there, I go to nitro clear coats.

Author:	utarazo [ Mon Dec 12, 2011 11:54 am ]
Post subject:	Pore Filling Questions!
Im at the point where i will be starting to pore fill either later today or starting tomorrow, just has some question, i ran around the internet, but couldn't get definitive answers, anyways. 1) what is the best pore filler to give it the best look?!..(i am leaning towards epoxy) 2) what areas need to be pore filled!? (might sound like a dumb question, but i just don't want to go trigger happy and start applying epoxy or another product everywhere )...like back and sides, neck, headstock, etc?! Jonathan

Author:	Kelby [ Mon Dec 12, 2011 12:14 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Pore Filling Questions!
Jonathan, First, not all woods are porous. Spruce, cedar, redwood tops are not porous. Your back and sides may or may not be porous, depending on the species. Maple is not porous, but redwoods and mahogany are porous. Let us know what woods you are using and we can tell you which have pores. You only need to fill wood that has pores. Second, you only want to fill the pores on the parts you plan to finish. You ordinarily would not finish the bridge or the face of the fingerboard, but you would finish everything else. But that's up to you. Third, it's not mandatory to fill pores. If you want a glossy surface, you should pore-fill, but if you want a matte finish or an oil finish, it's a matter of pesonal preference.

Author:	utarazo [ Mon Dec 12, 2011 12:49 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Pore Filling Questions!
its a cocobolo back and sides, englemann top, with ebony binding...headstock is macassar ebony, and cocobolo on the back. and am looking to get a shinny finish! jonathan

Author:	Kelby [ Mon Dec 12, 2011 1:02 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Pore Filling Questions!
Cocobolo is very porous, so fill that. No need to fill Englemann or ebony. Good luck, and post pics!

Author:	Quine [ Mon Dec 12, 2011 1:41 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Pore Filling Questions!
don't forget the neck. Mahogany is very porous I haven't tried epoxy for pore filling. I think all the pore filling methods have pro's and con's so its more of an issue with practice practice practice.

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Author:	Corky Long [ Mon Dec 12, 2011 2:20 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Pore Filling Questions!
I've used Zpoxy, and have a bit of a love hate relationship with it. Love the way it "pop"s the grain, hate the smell, toxicity, and application. It takes practice and technique to get it on with the right thickness, and to sand it back without cutting all the way through. If you go with the epoxy method, Todd Stock has a very good toot on how to apply it (System 3 or Zpoxy - I see them as pretty interchangeable, rightly or wrongly, although you've got to be very careful with the system 3 ratios.) Use nitrile gloves. The hardener is toxic stuff. I haven't used the waterborne pore fillers, but understand that they are easier to apply, although don't pop the grain the same way epoxy does.

Author:	B. Howard [ Mon Dec 12, 2011 5:43 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Pore Filling Questions!
I prefer System 3 simply because it is water clear. Makes it more forgiving when sanding back, but yes the trade is finicky mix ratios. Although a decent, small digital pocket scale can be bought for less than $20 which makes accurate mixing real easy. 10g resin, 4.4g hardener (with system 3, not Z-poxy) makes about 1/2 oz of epoxy, enough to easily coat a guitar.

Author:	CharlieT [ Mon Dec 12, 2011 5:56 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Pore Filling Questions!
B. Howard wrote: I prefer System 3 simply because it is water clear. Makes it more forgiving when sanding back, but yes the trade is finicky mix ratios. Although a decent, small digital pocket scale can be bought for less than $20 which makes accurate mixing real easy. 10g resin, 4.4g hardener (with system 3, not Z-poxy) makes about 1/2 oz of epoxy, enough to easily coat a guitar. +1 for Brian's comments. I prefer System 3 for the same reason (water clear) plus it doesn't smell quite as bad as Z-poxy and is a little lower viscosity. I bought a cheap (< $20) digital scale on eBay that is super accurate and I can mix pretty small batches and be confident the ratio is correct. Never had a problem with cure.

Author:	Rod True [ Mon Dec 12, 2011 6:17 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Pore Filling Questions!
I hate them all!!!!!!! Every method sucks to one degree or another. Just have to try one, see if you like it. I've done epoxy, pumice, shellac sandpaper, egg white sandpaper, water based filler (blahhh) and have stuck with Med viscosity CA for the most part. It all depends on the type of look you want in the pores. Do you want water white filler which will only show the wood (epoxy, CA), or do you want to fill the pores with some material darker than the wood (water or oil based filler,) or fill it with a slurry of the back/side wood itself (egg white, pumice, shellac with sandpaper)? The all look different under finish...

Author:	cphanna [ Mon Dec 12, 2011 9:49 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Pore Filling Questions!
Hey, Jonathan, You are the only one who can answer your own question, because the method that looks and works best is so very subjective for every builder. I recommend you get several pieces of scrap and experiment on them with pore fillers, epoxy, oil and sanding dust, etc. etc. etc., including every other recipe you have ever studied. Then see which of those methods works best for YOU. That's the only way you will ever know which one works the best in terms of your own artistic sensibilities. If you listen to all the rest of us, you will only be hearing what works best for us, and you will find many varied answers there, because it's subjective for us, too. Press on, do your experimenting, and you will come out just fine! Patrick

Author:	alan stassforth [ Mon Dec 12, 2011 10:08 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Pore Filling Questions!
cphanna wrote: Hey, Jonathan, You are the only one who can answer your own question, because the method that looks and works best is so very subjective for every builder. I recommend you get several pieces of scrap and experiment on them with pore fillers, epoxy, oil and sanding dust, etc. etc. etc., including every other recipe you have ever studied. Then see which of those methods works best for YOU. That's the only way you will ever know which one works the best in terms of your own artistic sensibilities. If you listen to all the rest of us, you will only be hearing what works best for us, and you will find many varied answers there, because it's subjective for us, too. Press on, do your experimenting, and you will come out just fine! Patrick Well put! Do test pieces with diefferent fillers, and topcoats too! One wood looks good with one, the other doesn't. Safest way to go is with an epoxy filler, and nitro finish, for looks. Only problem is that they are really nasty products to use.

Author:	ernie [ Tue Dec 13, 2011 12:25 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Pore Filling Questions!
Questions , where did you get the digital scale on e- bay.??brian did you use the white silica with the system 3 fill ?? I bought the 30 min system 3 but with the silica , as that is what I saw on the bogdanovitch neck pore fill dvd. Have not done it yet , I have a OHAUS manual scale . but was wondering anyone use the system 3 with the silica??

Author:	Barry Daniels [ Tue Dec 13, 2011 12:29 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Pore Filling Questions!
I always have to be the lone proponent of traditional silex oil-based paste wood pore filler. I've tried everything else and keep going back to this one.

Author:	Glen H [ Tue Dec 13, 2011 1:08 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Pore Filling Questions!
You're not alone Barry. I still use it on necks. I'm considering going back to it for bodies as well. I've used most all of them and none seem to work 100% of them time. They may look perfect when done, but pores seem to always show up months later. I've noticed the same on about every maker of factory guitars also. Pore here, pore there.

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Author:	Arnt Rian [ Tue Dec 13, 2011 7:34 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Pore Filling Questions!
I'm always in a hurry, so medium CA (Starbond) is what I usually use. The fumes are horrendous, but once cured it sands wonderfully, and it is as clear as glass. I like the look.

Author:	alan stassforth [ Tue Dec 13, 2011 8:13 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Pore Filling Questions!
Anybody use the micro bead filler from LMI? I started my first pore filling with shellac and pumice, and it is taking forever, on not that porous of a wood.

Author:	Rod True [ Tue Dec 13, 2011 8:47 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Pore Filling Questions!
I've used the micro bead stuff from LMI. That was about 7 years ago, the two guitars I used it on are holding up fine with no issues. Took about 3 sessions to fill the pores though, material was EIR.

Author:	Eric Reid [ Wed Dec 14, 2011 12:17 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Pore Filling Questions!
alan stassforth wrote: Anybody use the micro bead filler from LMI? I started my first pore filling with shellac and pumice, and it is taking forever, on not that porous of a wood. Alan--do what works for you. That's my advice for anyone who is struggling with finishing issues. For me, shellac and pumice works great, goes very quickly, and is a very pleasant part of the process. I won't pretend that there weren't many unhappy bumps on the road. Okay, there were some really miserable bumps. At this point, I'm glad I kept struggling.

Author:	cphanna [ Wed Dec 14, 2011 2:06 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Pore Filling Questions!
Barry and Glen, I thought I was the only one around here using oil based paste pore filler...... That's what works best for me. Patrick

Author:	Jim_H [ Wed Dec 14, 2011 4:15 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Pore Filling Questions!
Hmm.. I'm intrigued by the thought of CA pore filling. Has anyone done a t00t on it, or know of a youtube demonstration?

Author:	Arnt Rian [ Wed Dec 14, 2011 9:22 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Pore Filling Questions!
Jim_H wrote: Hmm.. I'm intrigued by the thought of CA pore filling. Has anyone done a t00t on it, or know of a youtube demonstration? Jim, the way I do it, there's not much to it; apply it straight from the bottle, use kitchen towel to wipe it around, and GET OUT OF THE ROOM! Use a good respirator, goggles, gloves, and preferably an exhaust fan, or open a door or a window, you get the idea. Did I mention the stuff REEKS?! Once cured, sand back to bare wood, and apply again if necessary, sand back again, do some drop fills and spot sanding etc until you have a perfectly (ha!) level surface, with the CA only in the pores. From there, I go to nitro clear coats.

Author:	CharlieT [ Wed Dec 14, 2011 9:33 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Pore Filling Questions!
Arnt Rian wrote: Jim, the way I do it, there's not much to it; apply it straight from the bottle, use kitchen towel to wipe it around, and GET OUT OF THE ROOM! Use a good respirator, goggles, gloves, and preferably an exhaust fan, or open a door or a window, you get the idea. Did I mention the stuff REEKS?! Once cured, sand back to bare wood, and apply again if necessary, sand back again, do some drop fills and spot sanding etc until you have a perfectly (ha!) level surface, with the CA only in the pores. From there, I go to nitro clear coats. Arnt - do you sand all the way back to wood or try to leave a thin coat of CA on the surface? With epoxy you have to be careful of you'll end up with uneven or blotchy color under the finish. Is that a concern with CA? Thanks.

Author:	Arnt Rian [ Wed Dec 14, 2011 9:45 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Pore Filling Questions!
I like to have it only in the pores, although I have done the thin coat of CA over everything, and it does not seem to hurt anything. As it is quite clear, you don't need to be as concerned about blotches, or darker end grain areas (on neck heel especially), as with some epoxies (Z-poxy, e.g.). Still, I prefer to have it only in the pores, as I am a little concerned about its long term stability if used as a full ground coating. Hopefully, it will hold up OK, but you never know...

Author:	alan stassforth [ Wed Dec 14, 2011 11:25 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Pore Filling Questions!
Thanks for the encouragement, Eric. I think I made 2 mistakes. One is I put 6 coats on the git before filling, and two is I used med amber flakes, which smear around and I have to wipe of with a clean rag with alcohol. I read later 2 coats first, and I will use some super blond after I sand the 6 coats completely off. Won't be the first time for me to go back to bare wood!