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| Reddening EIR http://luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=34685 |
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| Author: | Mike OMelia [ Sun Dec 25, 2011 1:50 am ] |
| Post subject: | Reddening EIR |
I would like to redden some EIR. Trying to mimic BRW. Is this possible? Actual product sources appreciated. Is this a bad idea? Anyone have pics of such work? Merry Christmas! Mike |
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| Author: | cphanna [ Sun Dec 25, 2011 10:29 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Reddening EIR |
Hi, Mike. You can stain it to shift the color, but whether you can get it to your satisfaction is something you can only determine with experimentation. And, of course, the problem with rosewood is having enough sacrificial scraps to experiment on. I'm one of the few around here who pore fill with oil based pore filler. I use it because it gives me vehicle in which I can apply stains. I'd mix in some dark walnut brown oil stain and a dab of artist's oil color--cadmium red light. Pore fill as usual and wipe the excess off when it starts to get hazy looking. You've got to do this under strong light so you can see the residue. You'll probably need two passes at filling, 24 hours apart. Really work at getting that residue wiped off. Then let it dry three or four days. You'll still have some residue on your wood. I don't sand this off. I buff it off with very fine steel wool. That, in itself, leaves a lot of fibers on the piece and you need to be very thorough about cleaning it up. But, having done all that, you'll have a nice, level, lustrous surface ready to receive any finish. It'll be color-shifted, too. You need to experiment with the color proportions to see if you can get the effect you're after. When it's completely dry, it'll even be compatible with water borne finishes, but you can also seal it with shellac if you like. Some will say this sort of pore filling leaves a cloudy look. That has NEVER been my experience. I believe cloudiness, when it happens, is caused by residual pore filler on the surface. You've got to work under a strong light to be sure you've got the cloudy residue buffed off. Filler and stain come from the paint / hardware store. Cadmium red light oil color comes in tubes at the art supply store. By the way, I have stained the SIDES of EIR fingerboards this way, along with necks. They came out dark brown with reddish highlights. I liked the way they looked. You might NOT like it, so, experiment. |
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| Author: | runamuck [ Sun Dec 25, 2011 10:07 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Reddening EIR |
I would use analine dye but no matter the color stain or dye, the wood will get darker; EI may be too dark to get red to show much. |
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| Author: | Eric Reid [ Wed Dec 28, 2011 12:51 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Reddening EIR |
I don't think you'll have much luck making Indian pass for Brazilian, but most Indian Rosewood benefits from some color in the finish. To my eye, the purpler sets require it. Still, I never feel the need to go beyond the palette that natural shellac offers, unless I'm matching an existing finish. Any of the darker shellacs will add some red or orange to the wood. Filtered seedlac usually gives a nice warm addition. Vijay's dewaxed Siam seedlac flakes are my current favorite for a deeply colored shellac. (Out of stock right now, or I'd give the link.) |
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| Author: | TimAllen [ Wed Dec 28, 2011 5:59 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Reddening EIR |
I can tell you a little bit about doing this. My interest is not to make EIR the color of BRW, but I have a couple of inexpensive but serviceable EIR sets that could use adjusting so the sides match the back. I'm also tempted to try to make pale, bland EIR look better. Knowledgeable people will tell you that the best way to change the color of wood is to spray multiple thin coats of tinted finish. I believe this but I'm not set up to do it. I have used water based "analine" dyes to color wood for projects like furniture and picture frames. I've used it on a sapele guitar neck, and on sapwood on a walnut guitar neck. Unlike the pigment in oil-based filler, these water dyes give a transparent color and there's a "depth" to the wood. The filler color is nice and even, but it makes the wood look a little like Formica IMO. Test it, though--you might like it. I just tried a quick test of water based dye on EIR. I tested some brown Lockwood dye and some red dye from LMI. Both colors "took." The red dye looked too red at first, but when I added naphtha to simulate finish, it actually looked fairly real, and a bit more like BRW. I think you would need to add some yellow to get a more realistic BRW tone. It would also depend a lot on the color of your EIR. Lighter, less purple EIR would be easier to start with, I'd think. I will try to post a photo. I don't know how it will look on other people's monitors, but you may get sort of idea of the colors. At the top is a scrap of maple veneer showing the dilute brown dye and the bright red dye. Below is the dyed EIR with naphtha squirted on it. At right is a scrap of BRW veneer for comparison. I think the guys are right that if you put very much dye on EIR it will go too dark. You might get around this by bleaching the EIR first (using a 2-part wood bleach). I have read that, in the late 1960's, the BRW Martin could get didn't have good color, so sometimes they bleached it and then dyed it. If you really want a faux Brazilian look, you could try painting in the the very dark brown/black lines. For that I think you'd need to use an opaque oil-based glaze. You could spend a lot of time experimenting with this and fill up the long winter nights. Which for you are summer nights, I guess. ; ) If you make progress on this, please post pictures and let us know what you learned. |
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| Author: | Alex Kleon [ Wed Dec 28, 2011 7:32 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Reddening EIR |
This is on the Allied Lutherie site. http://www.alliedlutherie.com/makeover.htm Alex |
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| Author: | Kevin Waldron [ Thu Dec 29, 2011 8:15 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Reddening EIR |
Bleach wood first with wood bleach....... be sure and neuralize then use a water base dye ( shoe polish will also work if you seal it with a sealer ). Kevin |
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