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OK to dilute Titebond with H2O?
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Author:  nyazzip [ Tue Jan 03, 2012 10:48 pm ]
Post subject:  OK to dilute Titebond with H2O?
i want to thin out some titebond, in order to get it to flow thru a tube and into a crack in a confined area using a syringe to pump it. can i add some water? it cleans up with water, so....i am assuming i can?
Author:  WudWerkr [ Tue Jan 03, 2012 11:06 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: OK to dilute Titebond with H2O?
never tried it , never heard it done , sounds like experiment time and tell US how it went.
Author:  Carey [ Tue Jan 03, 2012 11:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: OK to dilute Titebond with H2O?
I don't know. I'd suggest using Titebond Extend instead- all its working properties
are better than Titebond, except for the quick tack of the latter. Good stuff.
Author:  Jim Watts [ Tue Jan 03, 2012 11:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: OK to dilute Titebond with H2O?
Yeah it'll work, I would add much though, a 5-10%, it doesn't take much to thin it out. If I'm gluing end grain I thin it a little to let the end grain suck it up, and then add some full strength a few minute later. So my application is way different, but I think you should be ok for a tight crack. Hide glue would be better though IMO.
Author:  Chris Pile [ Tue Jan 03, 2012 11:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: OK to dilute Titebond with H2O?
Heck, yeah - just don't get carried away.
Author:  Jim_H [ Tue Jan 03, 2012 11:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: OK to dilute Titebond with H2O?
Titebond says you can dilute up to 5% on their website.
Author:  Fred Tellier [ Wed Jan 04, 2012 12:06 am ]
Post subject:  Re: OK to dilute Titebond with H2O?
I do it all the time to install binding, but it doesn't take a whole lot of water to make it thin enough. I use distilled water.

Fred
Author:  nyazzip [ Wed Jan 04, 2012 12:43 am ]
Post subject:  Re: OK to dilute Titebond with H2O?
ok good. hide glue is out because i cannot get at the location so i need a slower set time... i have to reach in through the soundhole blind, try to get glue into the cracked brace, and then wedge temporary posts in between top and back plates, so the crack closes up. if i didn't have the skinniest adult male wrists in the world theres no way it could be done (like this) :!:
i thought about drilling a pilot hole right through the back of the guitar and into the brace(with luck), gluing the brace from the inside, then driving a drywall screw into the pilot hole from the outside, to get the brace to squeeze shut, then pulling the screw out when everything dries, and THEN filling the hole with a mahogany plug.
mind you the guitar is not worth much; i just want to get it ship shape
Author:  Stuart Gort [ Wed Jan 04, 2012 1:53 am ]
Post subject:  Re: OK to dilute Titebond with H2O?
Company says up to 10% without compromising mechanical properties. I got that via a phone call.

I only dillute it when I'm gluing in wooden inlays. With cnc they are pretty tight fits. I dillute 50/50 with water....just to make a film between the parts.

10% will do quite a bit to reduce viscosity. I'm not sure how I feel about dilluting it for a load bearing joint...I'm just conveying what I got directly from the company.
Author:  Dave Stewart [ Wed Jan 04, 2012 9:41 am ]
Post subject:  Re: OK to dilute Titebond with H2O?
Diluting is quite common when working with veneers (soaks in better). Don't go beyond the 10% that has been mentioned though.
Author:  hugh.evans [ Wed Jan 04, 2012 10:06 am ]
Post subject:  Re: OK to dilute Titebond with H2O?
I'll let you hear it straight from the horse: Dilution with water is fine, and will dramatically decrease viscosity. A 5% and 10% addition of water will reduce viscosity by 50% and 75% respectively. Any strength loss in this range can be considered negligible. Another excellent use for dilution is mixing up sizing, which is typically a 1:1 or 2:1 water:adhesive mixture. Applying this mixture to end grain (ex. scarf joints) a few minutes prior to full strength adhesive can result in 20%+ increases in bond strength.

I also second Carey's input regarding Titebond Extend... Which happens to be my personal favorite all around PVA for guitars because of its longer assembly time, superior thermal and creep resistance, not to mention it steams apart nicely. Most of the big guys use a closely related product from our industrial line.

I agree with Zlurgh's assessment as well. Pushing beyond 5% dilution you can start to see some strength loss. It doesn't really drive the solids content critically low, but it's worth being aware of. I have recommended going that far for cracked headstocks simply because it is more likely to increase bond surface area and squeeze out more effectively. However, if we're talking about setting a neck there's usually not a great case for dilution in the first place.

Now, back to work writing up some technical reports left over from last year.
Author:  Darryl Young [ Wed Jan 04, 2012 3:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: OK to dilute Titebond with H2O?
Hugh, are you saying that Original Extend has better creep resistance than Original or am I misunderstanding?
Author:  Fred Tellier [ Wed Jan 04, 2012 3:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: OK to dilute Titebond with H2O?
I used to use extend but lately the stock at Woodcraft looks strange, there is a layer of a different color of yellow at the top. It made me nervous so I bought regular original TB. Has anyone used this glue or even seen this issue?
Author:  nyazzip [ Wed Jan 04, 2012 4:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: OK to dilute Titebond with H2O?
i've seen yellow wood glue(can't recall if it was Elmers or Titebond) separate into 2 layers, a darker/clearer/oilier looking layer on top, after being chilled/frozen in the garage. i wouldn't buy it in that condition. but i don't know, it may be fine after it is stirred up
Author:  Jim_H [ Wed Jan 04, 2012 5:17 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: OK to dilute Titebond with H2O?
Fred Tellier wrote:
I used to use extend but lately the stock at Woodcraft looks strange, there is a layer of a different color of yellow at the top. It made me nervous so I bought regular original TB. Has anyone used this glue or even seen this issue?


I've noticed this too. It seems thick and has a strange orange/yellow gel/film on top of it. I didn't buy it because of this.

I have an older bottle that doesn't have this but is past it's fresh date and has thickened quite a bit.
Author:  Mike_P [ Wed Jan 04, 2012 8:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: OK to dilute Titebond with H2O?
I've used titebond in an OralJet (supplied by dentists to keep the socket left after a tooth is pulled clean...it's basically a syringe with a long curved tip with a pretty darned small hole) without having to dilute...I'd experiment with your setup to see if it has to be thinned out to come out of the tip...and of course make sure to clean out your syringe after use of you want to use it again
Author:  hugh.evans [ Thu Jan 05, 2012 9:41 am ]
Post subject:  Re: OK to dilute Titebond with H2O?
Yes, Titebond Extend has superior creep resistance compared to Titebond Original. It also contains some fillers that contribute to its performance. Over time these can settle, and give the appearance of separation after spending some time on a store shelf. When shaken up these will return to their normal color and consistency. In fact, every time this question comes up and a sample is returned for analysis the adhesive is back to normal just from its handling during the shipping process.

If you see an orange film or layer on Titebond II or Titebond II Extend, avoid it. That's a sure sign it is going bad and typically is 4 to 5 years or more past its production date. A little bit of yellow at the top of a bottle of Titebond Extend Original is nothing to worry about.
Author:  Fred Tellier [ Thu Jan 05, 2012 9:52 am ]
Post subject:  Re: OK to dilute Titebond with H2O?
Quote:
A little bit of yellow at the top of a bottle of Titebond Extend Original is nothing to worry about.


That is good to hear, I will go back to using it.

Fred
Author:  Buddha [ Sun Jan 08, 2012 10:53 am ]
Post subject:  OK to dilute Titebond with H2O?
I have recently glued a top and in a concrete part of the seam I could see a little gap into the Titebond seal. Can I run some diluted Titebond to close the gap?
Author:  Joe Beaver [ Sun Jan 08, 2012 2:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: OK to dilute Titebond with H2O?
Buddah
I don't think titebond diluted or otherwise will make a very good filler. You might be able to heat the area and reclamp closing the gap. other than that I would make little slivers of the same material and glue in with LMI white. If you use titebond for this the glue lines will be more visible than LMI white because the white dries clear, titebond does not.

Good luck
Author:  nyazzip [ Thu Nov 29, 2012 3:17 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: OK to dilute Titebond with H2O?
just thought i'd say, by the way, this dilution/injection thing seems to have worked, even though i thinned the glue quite a bit more than 5%.....its been strung up for a couple weeks now, and i've been playing it every day and its held together...
[:Y:]
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