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Titebond: I, II, III
http://luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=35097		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  Florentin [ Tue Jan 24, 2012 11:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Titebond: I, II, III
What is the difference really between the three types?
Are these different strengths?

Thanks
Author:  Tai Fu [ Tue Jan 24, 2012 11:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Titebond: I, II, III
Florentin wrote:
What is the difference really between the three types?
Are these different strengths?

Thanks


Seems like Titebond II and III are designed more to be waterproof rather than strength, both are too soft to be used in an instrument because they have a nasty tendency to creep under load.
Author:  mud4feet [ Tue Jan 24, 2012 11:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Titebond: I, II, III
I've also seen a "clear drying" Titebond. Is this Type I, II, or III? Unless I know for sure, guess I'll just keep cleaning up my sqeeze-out ! :lol: :lol:
Author:  John Arnold [ Tue Jan 24, 2012 11:45 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Titebond: I, II, III
Quote:
unless I know for sure, guess I'll just keep cleaning up my squeeze-out ! :lol: :lol:

Even if they dry clear, these types of glues will show a spot under finish....sometimes only when viewed at low angles.
IMHO, Titebond I (Original) is the only version suitable for instruments.
Author:  mud4feet [ Wed Jan 25, 2012 12:10 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Titebond: I, II, III
John Arnold wrote:
Quote:
unless I know for sure, guess I'll just keep cleaning up my squeeze-out ! :lol: :lol:

Even if they dry clear, these types of glues will show a spot under finish....sometimes only when viewed at low angles.
IMHO, Titebond I (Original) is the only version suitable for instruments.


Thanks, John, that's pretty much what I figured. Titebond I = good stuff! Clean up after yourself.
Author:  John Coloccia [ Wed Jan 25, 2012 12:43 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Titebond: I, II, III
Wondering if anyone actually has any experience with Titebond II creeping and causing a problem.
Author:  Tai Fu [ Wed Jan 25, 2012 12:46 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Titebond: I, II, III
John Coloccia wrote:
Wondering if anyone actually has any experience with Titebond II creeping and causing a problem.


Just pull the dried glue. Titebond II is MUCH more flexible compared to Titebond I.
Author:  Josh H [ Wed Jan 25, 2012 8:21 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Titebond: I, II, III
II and III are more heat resistant than I. Generally not what you want for any part that may need to be disassembled in the future. But it is good if you are doing something like gluing purfling to binding before bending the binding.

Josh
Author:  mtracz [ Wed Jan 25, 2012 8:37 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Titebond: I, II, III
I also use II to glue purfling to binding. More heat resistant and flexible helps when bending with an iron or blanket. Titebond I for every thing else.

_Mike
Author:  mikemcnerney [ Wed Jan 25, 2012 8:55 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Titebond: I, II, III
Someone from titebond has responded a few times on this forum and from personal experience, they have excellent customer support.
I was told that titebond 1 "extend" has a rigid glue line .
I have been using it a lot because I do a lot of veneering in furniture & it gives me more open time on large surfaces & also on curved surfaces has less spring back.
My experience with insturments is limited but I am using it on guitar.
mm
Author:  Tai Fu [ Wed Jan 25, 2012 9:16 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Titebond: I, II, III
I tried to heat a bridge off that was glued on with Titebond II, it just did not want to come off at all.
Author:  John Coloccia [ Wed Jan 25, 2012 9:58 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Titebond: I, II, III
I had no trouble removing a fingerboard that was glued with Titebond II but it did take quite a lot of heat. It wasn't any fun at all.

I just hear all the time that bad things will happen if I use a certain type of glue, but I can't seem to find any real life experience except for liquid hide glue (which apparently really is the devil, except for Old Browns which is maybe OK). I guess I'm wondering how many people have actually have something bad happen with TBII that is specifically the glue's fault?
Author:  Bryan Bear [ Wed Jan 25, 2012 1:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Titebond: I, II, III
John Coloccia wrote:
I guess I'm wondering how many people have actually have something bad happen with TBII that is specifically the glue's fault?


I glued a bridge with TB II before I knew any better (2005). I has certainly moved visibly. someday it will come off all together. I keep it in the corner just so I can watch the slow motion glue failure. Is it possible that better woodworking technique could have avoided this? Sure. But it is clear that TB II will stretch and creep given the opportunity.
Author:  Florentin [ Wed Jan 25, 2012 1:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Titebond: I, II, III
The reason I asked is because I bought some Titebond I, but then I saw both II and III in photos online, being used by woodworkers. Thanks for the information so far.
Author:  hugh.evans [ Wed Jan 25, 2012 1:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Titebond: I, II, III
I knew my ears were burning! For clarification, I work as a Technical Specialist for Franklin International and am the resident guitar expert due to my personal and industry experience... so I get the cool projects. When answering questions on this forum it is outside of my official capacity.

You may want to search through some of my previous posts on this topic, although it questions arise we van certain discuss them. Titebond Original and Titebond Extend are at the top end of PVA wood glue performance if water resistance is not needed. Titebond II and III were formulated for the purpose of passing HPVA type II and type I water resistance standards. In order to give a PVA water resistance, tradeoffs arise in areas such as thermal plasticity and therefore creep resistance. However, Titebond II is commonly used in certain elements of guitar making when RF curing is employed. To the best of my knowledge, I am not aware of any major manufacturers using it for neck joints or bridges. Unless you are making guitars that will be left out in the rain or boiling water, there is no advantage to using Titebond II (unless you are using RF) or III for luthiery.

Bryan- That is very interesting indeed. Titebond II is more susceptible to creep, but guitar string tension is likely too low to induce it unless the glueline is a bit thick.
Author:  Bryan Bear [ Wed Jan 25, 2012 3:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Titebond: I, II, III
Hugh, the glue line may indeed be thicker than ideal, my woodworking (I'm sure has improved since then). This is not a guitar, more of an experimental instrument. The bridge setup was ill advised and probably has much more torque than a typical steel string guitar. It has also seen its fair share of abusive environments. . .
Author:  peter.coombe [ Wed Jan 25, 2012 8:39 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Titebond: I, II, III
I used Titebond II in my early mandolins when I accidently ordered the wrong glue and didn't know anything better. Must be around about 10 of them. Then made a couple with liquid hide glue, then Original Titebond, then (and still)LMI. No failures. There was a bit of creep on the wings of the headstock with Titebond II, but they are now around 18 years old and still going strong with no issues that I know of. One of the liquid hide glue mandolins was left in the back of a hot car (by me) and the finish melted, but the mandolin survived intact. I refinished and it is still going fine. I stopped using Titebond II because I was worried about repair nightmares if something broke. Nothing has. So, most of the tales of doom and gloom if you use the "wrong" glue is BS. Oh, I still use Titebond II, but only for gluing purphling to bindings.

Peter
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