Official Luthiers Forum!
http://luthiersforum.com/forum/

Real Lutz Spruce???
http://luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=36610		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  coach [ Sun May 27, 2012 10:37 am ]
Post subject:  Real Lutz Spruce???
Hey guys,

I'm interested in Lutz spruce. I've found two vendors online, High Mountain Tonewoods and Sprucetonewood.com. One guy claims the other doesn't really sell Lutz. How do you know what is real Lutz and what is just spruce?

I'm interested in getting as close to the vintage sound as possible, and from what John Greven claims, next to quality Adi Spruce, which seems to be harder to find and is way more expensive, Lutz is it.

I really respect John as a builder, and I think his guitars are amazing. Any helpful advice on distinguishing Lutz, and all honest dealers of Lutz will be appreciated.

Sean
Author:  CharlieT [ Sun May 27, 2012 10:50 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Real Lutz Spruce???
I have a couple of dozen sets of Lutz from the "other guy" and it is some of the best spruce around...very stiff and very light and it rings like a bell. AND, unlike some, the other guy grades his spruce like a professional, which means you'll get the same or better quality you'd expect for a given grade, INCLUDING color.

I don't like funky marketing scams; I personally prefer straight forward sales and a great product, at a fair price, from a vendor I can trust. That makes my decision easy. I get my Lutz from the same guy as Greven and Greenfield.
Author:  Markus Schmid [ Sun May 27, 2012 10:50 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Real Lutz Spruce???
I never buy from suppliers who talk bad about their competitors.
Author:  Colin S [ Sun May 27, 2012 11:23 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Real Lutz Spruce???
From what I hear both traders sell good Lutz, just one doesn't make such a song and dance about it.

Shane up at High Mountain is a real pleasure to deal with, and I'm over in Europe! The Lutz spruce he sells is the only North American spruce I would consider using apart from pure White spruce. He is also very, very generous with his grading so you can always be confident that you'll get wood that you're happy with, without it being from a tree called by some ludicrous name. I tapped some of Shane's Lutz a couple of months ago and it's still ringing.

By the way I made a superb little guitar using some lutz that Shane used as 'packing'!

Colin
Author:  SteveSmith [ Sun May 27, 2012 12:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Real Lutz Spruce???
I recently got a batch of 10 AA tops from Shane and they are really nice. He's always a pleasure to deal with.
Author:  John Coloccia [ Sun May 27, 2012 12:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Real Lutz Spruce???
Markus Schmid wrote:
I never buy from suppliers who talk bad about their competitors.


And this right here sums it up for me.
Author:  LaurieW [ Sun May 27, 2012 12:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Real Lutz Spruce???
Shane is a great guy and has a great product....its the only place I do or would buy it!
Author:  theguitarwhisperer [ Sun May 27, 2012 1:13 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Real Lutz Spruce???
I've never heard Mario say anything bad about Shane. He does state on his website that some vendors who sell "lutz" are really selling Sitka, but he doesn't mention Shane specifically.

Lutz grows in a very specific regional band of Canada, and Shane and Mario are practically neighbors, meaning they live near each other, and both sell genuine Lutz, and Mario has specifically told me that Shane sells Lutz as well.

I kinda like the hype. I like the tree names as well.

I've bought from both guys.

Shane gave me the most outstanding top I've ever seen in person. Clear white, very strong medullary rays across the entire width of the top.

I've never bought a piece from Mario I wouldn't build with, and I'm super picky. I don't think his grading system is dubious, all the tops I've gotten from him have had super nice medullry rays across the entire face. He has sold me some outstanding pieces as well.

Shane's tops tend to be purer in color.

The tops I've bought from Mario have had more color to them, but I picked them out for that reason, as I like colorful woody looking tops. I've seen from very nice clear white tops from Mario.

BTW, real Lutz IS just spruce. [:Y:] and, Sitka is a perfectly acceptable tone wood as well.
Author:  violinvic [ Sun May 27, 2012 1:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Real Lutz Spruce???
I have only used Lutz for fiddle tops that I got from Shane. They are the nicest tops that I have found for fiddles. They are eye-poppin beautiful and I am waiting for him to cut me some more violin tops. I also plan to get some guitar tops in the near future. I have never gotten Lutz from another source, so I cannot say anything about other Lutz suppliers. If you can find a supplier that sends you what you want and expect, why go anywhere else.
Author:  Clinchriver [ Sun May 27, 2012 2:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Real Lutz Spruce???
theguitarwhisperer wrote:
I've never heard Mario say anything bad about Shane. He does state on his website that some vendors who sell "lutz" are really selling Sitka, but he doesn't mention Shane specifically.

BTW, real Lutz IS just spruce. [:Y:] and, Sitka is a perfectly acceptable tone wood as well.


And I have heard him say that if you want Lutz its him or Shane.

I have quite a bit of Lutz from Sprucetonewood, I'm very happy with the wood and the service.
Author:  WaddyThomson [ Sun May 27, 2012 2:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Real Lutz Spruce???
I have tops from both guys. Some of the Mario tops that he grades as Master Grade, would never make it in the working market. Not only in quality but in esthetics. Master Grade from Shane is clear, clean, perfectly quartered, with minimal grain spread to the wings. It looks like Master Grade Spruce. Every piece I have from Mario has some kind of strange coloring or streaking or something. it's very stiff, and I'm sure it's good wood, but I've never been able to make myself pull the trigger on building with it. Always defaulted to Shane's wood when going through the stack.

Oh, and I've gotten emails trashing Shane's wood, from Mario, and telling me Shane is selling Sitka as Lutz, and doesn't know the difference. Then I'd get another one and he'd back off his statement. I think he's just a bit "hot-headed" that way. He's just a bit of a strange vendor. Haven't bought anything from him since I left that forum about 3 - 4 years ago, but have a dozen or so sets from auctions and specials.
Author:  CharlieT [ Sun May 27, 2012 2:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Real Lutz Spruce???
theguitarwhisperer wrote:
I've never heard Mario say anything bad about Shane. He does state on his website that some vendors who sell "lutz" are really selling Sitka, but he doesn't mention Shane specifically.


The only time I have visited Mario's Web site I came across an animated video obviously created by Mario or one of his supporters to directly criticize Shane, his process and his spruce. I have never seen or heard Shane criticize Mario or his product. Not saying he never has...I've just never personally seen it.

From all I have seen or read from the two Lutz vendors I have two very different perceptions of them. My experience with Shane has consistently been one of honesty, fairness and very nice spruce. That's all I'll say.

theguitarwhisperer wrote:
BTW, real Lutz IS just spruce. [:Y:] and, Sitka is a perfectly acceptable tone wood as well.


All spruce is just spruce. However, Sitka tends to be somewhat more fibrous and spongy compared to others, which tends to damp some of the high register (very subtly). All the Lutz I have from Shane seems a bit harder and more brittle, and just taps differently. I do realize good spruce is good spruce but if you're after a certain tone, why not maximize your odds by choosing the variety that tends to favor it?
Author:  CharlieT [ Sun May 27, 2012 3:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Real Lutz Spruce???
Todd Stock wrote:
If you've been here a bit, you've seen discussions between the two guys mentioned, and their agreement to bury the hatchet. FWIW, I have had good experience with Shane and feel that - if anything - he grades too harshly....the top on this Size 5 is the stuff he uses to pack the good tops...


Nice looking 5, Todd, including the top!

I also have a "packing wood" top from Shane all braced and ready to go. Unfortunately I made a cutting error that precluded its use on the 000 for which it was intended, so I plan to use it on an L-00 a couple of builds down the road. It's just too nice to not use. I agree about Shane grading very harshly, and that includes, as I said earlier, color. I do like the appearance of tops with character for the right build, but when that's what I'm looking for I'll request it. Unless otherwise called out, IMO a top graded as master or AAA or even AA should never have significant color. I know I'll get what I expect from Shane, including color (or lack thereof).
Author:  coach [ Sun May 27, 2012 7:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Real Lutz Spruce???
Wow! Thanks for all the responses guys. I don't have much time to spend reading or searching on this site, with three daughters(two of them babies), my only free time is spent either playing guitar or trying to learn how to build them after they go to bed. When I have a question, I ask it here, and I always appreciate the responses. I'm glad to see, that for the most part you all seem to be happy with both vendors. I just want a nice top that rings like a bell, and it sounds like they both sell good products. I look forward to trying them both out, and seeing what works best for me.

Sean
Author:  John Mayes [ Sun May 27, 2012 11:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Real Lutz Spruce???
I have my reasons but I'll not get into that. Suffice to say that Shane over at high mountain tonewoods is as good as they come. The product he supplies is excellent. Prices are reasonable. He is a great guy with none of the BS. I highly recommend him.
Author:  grumpy [ Mon May 28, 2012 12:04 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Real Lutz Spruce???
I, too, can vouch fort Shane's Lutz. Excellent wood, well cut, graded very well, and as often stated, a great, straight-up guy to deal with.

I have no doubt that Mario's Lutz is excellent, also, but I won't touch it, simply becaue I don;'t subscribe to his Billy Mayes-style of salesmanship. When I am buying spruce(which isn't often, as I cut my own....), I don;t want to play games, and take a guess at what the 'cute' name given to a log actually means. When I call or write Shane, if I say I want some wider grained, but even colored Lutz, or colorful yet with a ton of silk Lutz, he'll tell me which grade to ask for. And if I simply ask for "Master"(which to me means the most flawless of the species), I can be sure I'll get what I expected.

I've also set aside Shane's "packing stuffer" spruce for a few future builds...

Tone-wise, so far, I can say that Lutz favors Engelmann or Red more the Sitka, yet has its own twist. I would NOT use it if I was after that old pre-war tone, but rather, if I wanted to put a new twist on that pre-war tone.

As for head room or outright power potential, it can project like mad!
Author:  JasonMoe [ Mon May 28, 2012 12:54 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Real Lutz Spruce???
I've never seen either Shane or Mario talk bad about each other. They both live close, and both sell nice wood harvested by each other. We should thank them both for going out in the sticks and getting this wood to us. Its not sold on lmi and stewmac and other catalogs. Its special wood.
Author:  Jim Watts [ Mon May 28, 2012 11:52 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Real Lutz Spruce???
I'll jump on the band wagon too, Shanes wood is excellent. I've never tried the any other supplie for Lutz.
Author:  Lars Stahl [ Mon May 28, 2012 1:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Real Lutz Spruce???
+100 on Shanes wood ! Never bought from the other vendor. But Shanes Lutz are awesome. Order AA and you will most likely get what others call AAA or AAAA.

Lars
Author:  mqbernardo [ Mon May 28, 2012 4:45 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Real Lutz Spruce???
Shane seems to be a gem of a guy, very helpful too. just too bad his lutz is covered up with a ton of snow... BTW, does anyone know when he´ll have more spruce available?
Author:  Michael [ Mon May 28, 2012 8:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Real Lutz Spruce???
Mario has it right now. His stock is huge. Both venders sell great wood. Mario has been VERY good to me. I ordered 3 Lutz Harp Guitar tops and he threw in 2 Cedar HG tops to try out.. no charge.

By the way... I like the way this thread is going.. I like nice :D

Michael
Author:  Philip Perdue [ Tue May 29, 2012 1:23 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Real Lutz Spruce???
I would never hesitate in recommending Shane at High Mountain Tone wood. His products are good and his grading on Lutz is in line with Luthier terms. If anything he has tuff standards and there has never been a disappointment.

That being said, I have never dealt with Mario. I choose not to try his products just because his grading and terms are strange and don’t make sense to me. When I read descriptions like those I just pass them by. This is not a complaint because I have never bought from Mario. I’m just a bit more straight forward.

Philip
Author:  Mike Collins [ Wed May 30, 2012 1:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Real Lutz Spruce???
SHANE!
He's just the best !
Mc
Author:  Mike Collins [ Wed May 30, 2012 1:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Real Lutz Spruce???
SHANE!
He's just the best !
Mc
Author:  charliewood [ Thu May 31, 2012 1:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Real Lutz Spruce???
Shane at High Mountain knows his stuff, and there is no doubt that the Lutz he has sold me is definitely different from any Sitka or Englemann in my stash,,
As far as I know there is a very finite supply of Lutz, as it appears to be a hybrid that only occurs in a limited geographical region... appearantly the timber companies dont hold the species in as high regard (as we do) and harvest it freely for pulp and paper... Im sure more ppl have wiped thier butts with lutz than luthiers will ever build with it.. sadly.
Im hoping there is (or will be) some concerted effort in collecting and preserving premium Lutz genetics, talk about a surefire way to ensure future generations to enjoy building with it - in about 500 years.... agreed its a longsighted business plan.... lol
Cheers
Charlie
Page 1 of 2 All times are UTC - 5 hours
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group
http://www.phpbb.com/