I say go for it. Uh that top looks a lot like cardboard
I went ahead and went with my dual tone bar, 4 finger braced top, size O. I did some additional carving so we will see. Its a box as of this morning.
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| Bracing for 0-sized steel-string http://luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=36665 |
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| Author: | Lincoln Goertzen [ Sat Jun 02, 2012 3:34 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Bracing for 0-sized steel-string |
I am building a 0-size now, and I wish to use an X-brace. The guitar I drew the plans from used ladder bracing, and had steel strings on it for many years, but I would feel better about the X-brace. I plan to use lights or silk-and-steels. By the way- is it even necessary to use an X-brace with silk-and-steel strings? Could y'all tell me if I'm on the right track? I kept the bridge in the original place, and basically drew the X so that the lower arms support the wings of the bridge, and intersect 1 3/4" below the soundhole. Then I put in single finger braces 3" below the upper arms of the X, and put the tonebars where they would normally fall for an OM guitar. Here are two pictures of both my bracing proposition, and my template with the ladder bracing. Hopefully they are clear enough. Oh, and the bridge plate will extend about 1/4" behind the bridge, so it won't be a perfect trapezoid the way I have it drawn here. |
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| Author: | Clinchriver [ Sat Jun 02, 2012 3:44 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Bracing for 0-sized steel-string |
Here is a Martin O size I'm building. |
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| Author: | meddlingfool [ Sat Jun 02, 2012 4:11 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Bracing for 0-sized steel-string |
Looks right to me... |
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| Author: | Lincoln Goertzen [ Sat Jun 02, 2012 5:30 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Bracing for 0-sized steel-string |
Thank you for your input, and for the pictures. Would you recommend moving the upper tonebar down away from the bridge plate, and changing the angle so that the outer end is closer to the X? I just don't want to reinvent the wheel if these variables have all been tried before. Will that make a noticeable difference? |
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| Author: | bluescreek [ Sat Jun 02, 2012 6:07 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Bracing for 0-sized steel-string |
Actually you are over braced . You can use 1 finger brace and 1 tone bar. I have one that is how Martin braced it. |
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| Author: | Clinchriver [ Sat Jun 02, 2012 6:31 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Bracing for 0-sized steel-string |
bluescreek wrote: Actually you are over braced . You can use 1 finger brace and 1 tone bar. I have one that is how Martin braced it. John I believe I got my O tracing from you. |
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| Author: | Clinchriver [ Sat Jun 02, 2012 6:43 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Bracing for 0-sized steel-string |
Well John is right, I was using the wrong tracing. Here is the Martin O size tracing. |
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| Author: | bluescreek [ Sat Jun 02, 2012 7:06 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Bracing for 0-sized steel-string |
thats the one that will work the best. They are great guitars |
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| Author: | SteveSmith [ Sat Jun 02, 2012 7:21 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Bracing for 0-sized steel-string |
Here's one of mine from a size 0: Attachment: DSCF0654.JPG This was in the same file so I had to throw it in. One of Stephan Boone's planes. Attachment: DSCF0651.JPG
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| Author: | Ti-Roux [ Sat Jun 02, 2012 7:36 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Bracing for 0-sized steel-string |
These small body guitars aren't so wide at the low bout, so they don't need that much transverse stiffness. That said, only one small tone bar is enough, or you can use a fan-brace hybrid system. I mean replace the tone bar by 2 or 3 fan braces. That what's on the plan I drawn for a Size 1. |
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| Author: | Freeman [ Sat Jun 02, 2012 8:45 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Bracing for 0-sized steel-string |
The size 0 that I built had one tone bar and scalloped 1/4 inch braces. Works great with light gauge strings (I'm not a fan of silk and steel). Remarkably loud and quite well balanced for a small guitar. |
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| Author: | meddlingfool [ Sun Jun 03, 2012 12:16 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Bracing for 0-sized steel-string |
Gotta love them Boone planes! Steve, what's going on near your truss rod hole with the dark patch? Also, is it a lefty? |
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| Author: | Goodin [ Sun Jun 03, 2012 12:23 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Bracing for 0-sized steel-string |
This is a 1932 Martin 0-18...it has two... Attachment: 19320-18n (Large).jpg Attachment: IMG_4115 (Large).JPG
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| Author: | grumpy [ Sun Jun 03, 2012 10:49 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Bracing for 0-sized steel-string |
A 12 fret Zero only needs, and uses, one tone bar and finger brace. Not sure, but the original poster appears to be building a 12 fret? |
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| Author: | SteveSmith [ Sun Jun 03, 2012 11:17 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Bracing for 0-sized steel-string |
meddlingfool wrote: Gotta love them Boone planes! Steve, what's going on near your truss rod hole with the dark patch? Also, is it a lefty? I was moving a bit too fast when I drilled the hole in the brace for the truss rod and got a bit of tear-out around the hole. Not a big deal but it annoyed me so I stuck a slice of rosewood on it, drilled it and blended it in. This guitar is a righty. It is based on an 0-16NY that I bought new in '68 that I still have - a superb finger-style guitar and that is my goal with the new one. |
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| Author: | grumpy [ Sun Jun 03, 2012 11:38 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Bracing for 0-sized steel-string |
This guitar is a righty. In which case, your tone bar is on the wrong side... Not really an issue, but just sayin'.... |
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| Author: | SteveSmith [ Sun Jun 03, 2012 6:20 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Bracing for 0-sized steel-string |
grumpy wrote: This guitar is a righty. In which case, your tone bar is on the wrong side... Not really an issue, but just sayin'.... Not sure why it ended up there but it wasn't on purpose. I figured it probably wouldn't matter. The top is now on a mahogany box with black plastic binding - the plan is that it will be my shop guitar. |
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| Author: | Lincoln Goertzen [ Mon Jun 04, 2012 10:54 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Bracing for 0-sized steel-string |
Thank you all for your help! I plan to get right on bracing this little top tonight! Mario is right- it is a 12-fret. This will be a little smaller even than a 0, though- I compared my template with the Martin spec sheet, and mine will be 1/2" shorter in length, and a 1/2" narrower across the lower bout. |
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| Author: | John Arnold [ Mon Jun 04, 2012 6:03 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Bracing for 0-sized steel-string |
Quote: compared my template with the Martin spec sheet, and mine will be 1/2" shorter in length, and a 1/2" narrower across the lower bout. Size 1? |
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| Author: | Lincoln Goertzen [ Mon Jun 04, 2012 7:54 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Bracing for 0-sized steel-string |
After searching further for Size 1 dimensions, I found the overall body width of 12 3/4 inches, and I wasn't able to find a length. This guitar I'm trying to build is 18 3/4" long, 13" at the lower bout, 7 1/2" at the waist, and 9 1/2" at the upper bout. That seems to put it between a Size 1 and a 0, right? At least in Martin terms. I drew the plans off an antique Washburn. I don't know what they called it. Just to double-check: How's this bracing pattern now? As nearly as I can tell, it should work, based on the tracing above. The "improvements" are done in red, in case it wasn't obvious. Thanks again for all your help. I'm kind of excited about this little project for sentimental reasons. |
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| Author: | Clinchriver [ Mon Jun 04, 2012 8:18 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Bracing for 0-sized steel-string |
I say go for it. Uh that top looks a lot like cardboard I went ahead and went with my dual tone bar, 4 finger braced top, size O. I did some additional carving so we will see. Its a box as of this morning. |
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| Author: | coach [ Fri Jun 08, 2012 4:45 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Bracing for 0-sized steel-string |
Goodin wrote: This is a 1932 Martin 0-18...it has two... Attachment: 19320-18n (Large).jpg Attachment: IMG_4115 (Large).JPG Anyone know where I could get a drawing of this 14 fret O size guitar? I love this size, just finishing a 12 fret 0 size, and would love to build a 14 fret in the future, but don't know where to get a drawing. |
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| Author: | Clinchriver [ Fri Jun 08, 2012 4:52 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Bracing for 0-sized steel-string |
John Hall at Bluescreek has them |
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| Author: | coach [ Fri Jun 08, 2012 4:58 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Bracing for 0-sized steel-string |
Clinchriver wrote: John Hall at Bluescreek has them Thanks, I'll check with him! |
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| Author: | David Newton [ Fri Jun 08, 2012 6:55 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Bracing for 0-sized steel-string |
The '25 0-18 in my shop has 2 tone bars, but it is the lightest guitar I've ever seen. I had to put weights on it to keep it down on the bench. 
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