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Oscar Schmidt 12 string restoration http://luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=36771	Page 1 of 2

Author:	Tai Fu [ Wed Jun 13, 2012 8:41 am ]
Post subject:	Oscar Schmidt 12 string restoration
This guitar is unbranded, but the owner thinks its made by Oscar Schmidt (the same company that made Stella or Sovereign guitars). It has a spruce top, mahogany back and side and neck. Top is severely damaged, the neck folded inward taking the soundboard with it, the fingerboard is cracked from dryness and will have to be replaced. The peghead has cracked, and it is now being held together with some metal brackets. The top has several cracks, and the heel block is split cleanly in half. Also several cracks and missing wood in the side, and some previously repaired cracks on the back, otherwise the back is almost intact. Furthermore, someone has shaved the neck down from its original profile, and since the neck didn't come with any truss rods, I felt some kind of reinforcement is needed considering the amount of tension 12 strings can pull. Traditionally steel string necks without a truss rod are thick, for a good reason. I will install an adjustable truss rod as well as carbon reinforcement rods... The big tear out on the neck is evidence (apart from the thinner than usual neck profile) that the neck has been thinned at some point. So replace the fingerboard, remove the neck, fix the crack, spline the crack, install truss rod and reinforcements, fix the soundboard, fix the side, and fix the back. Lots of work to do. It's possible this guitar is worth a bit more than the previous Stella, so I will keep everything as original as possible.

Author:	Chris Pile [ Wed Jun 13, 2012 8:51 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Oscar Schmidt 12 string restoration
Given the skills you've displayed on your previous work, I have faith that you will get this instrument squared away - ready to make more music. Unleash your powers, Tai!

Author:	jfmckenna [ Wed Jun 13, 2012 10:08 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Oscar Schmidt 12 string restoration
Yikes that thing is hurtin' bad. Gotta love that head stock repair I wonder how long that's lasted.

Author:	Tai Fu [ Thu Jun 14, 2012 9:27 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Oscar Schmidt 12 string restoration
First order of business is to de-fret the thing... the fingerboard is going to be replaced, and whatever this wood is, it does NOT like having its fret removed.

Author:	Tai Fu [ Fri Jun 15, 2012 1:35 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Oscar Schmidt 12 string restoration
All unnecessary hardware was removed. Once that is done, the headstock came right off. Then the fingerboard was removed. Far from a textbook case, but most of the damage was already there to begin with. The fact that the section of the soundboard that was under the fingerboard was loose did not help. Bridge with the weird thing in it was also removed. Neck was then removed. I was expecting a dovetail joint but it turns out this isn't a dovetail at all, but instead some kind of a recessed butt joint with a screw inside the neck block holding it in. This one is going to be converted into a non-glued bolt on with two bolts, because there aren't enough wood for a dovetail and I don't trust glue to hold a butt joint in. I've elected to glue the neck back together first because I just don't want so many little pieces of the neck floating around and possibly getting lost. I will run carbon reinforcement rods right into the headstock to reinforce it, then cover both sides with mahogany veneer to hide the sins and reinforce the headstock area.

Author:	Goodin [ Fri Jun 15, 2012 9:03 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Oscar Schmidt 12 string restoration
Looks like some heavy metal rocker used it to smash up on stage. Wow, that's some serious work there...looking forward to watching your progress!

Author:	Joe Hill [ Sat Jun 16, 2012 10:27 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Oscar Schmidt 12 string restoration
Tai, from what I have seen from your previous restorations you are remarkable…I am going to love watching you restore this one. Along with others on this forum your documentation is very instructional. Joe H.

Author:	Tai Fu [ Mon Jun 18, 2012 5:17 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Oscar Schmidt 12 string restoration
I am working on the neck first, and will disassemble the body later on, I want to minimize the number of loose parts to prevent me from losing them. I will be veneering both side of the headstock to reinforce it, here are the veneers (I had to sacrifice a neck blank because I don't have any mahogany headplate, and most headplates are too short for a 12 string) Both sides have been thinned down with a Wagner Safe T Planer One side is glued on.

Author:	charliewood [ Mon Jun 18, 2012 5:02 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Oscar Schmidt 12 string restoration
Jee whiz I would put that right in the garbage, but thats just me - it seems like Everything needs to be repaired on that thing... top sides headstock fingerboard etc etc and with all the repairs its gonna take, I doubt the resale will be a heck of alot - might as well build a replica... based on the dimensions for the guy.. But from the threads Ive seen you seem to relish a good repair so - it might be fun for you... I wouldnt enjoy it.. Cheers Charliewood

Author:	Tai Fu [ Mon Jun 18, 2012 11:31 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Oscar Schmidt 12 string restoration
charliewood wrote: Jee whiz I would put that right in the garbage, but thats just me - it seems like Everything needs to be repaired on that thing... top sides headstock fingerboard etc etc and with all the repairs its gonna take, I doubt the resale will be a heck of alot - might as well build a replica... based on the dimensions for the guy.. But from the threads Ive seen you seem to relish a good repair so - it might be fun for you... I wouldnt enjoy it.. Cheers Charliewood Well the customer is willing to pay me to repair it, so... Besides even a pre-war Martin loses a significant amount of its value if it gets broken too. I've seen one on ebay going for around 4-500 dollars (probably up to 1000 by the time the auction is finished) which is a far cry from its mint value (over 10,000 dollars). Frank Ford would waste no time in repairing them too. Besides right now I don't really have the privilege to turn down work because its too much trouble.

Author:	John A [ Tue Jun 19, 2012 7:49 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Oscar Schmidt 12 string restoration
Tai - looking forward to following this thread - you repairs and the work you put into them are top notch !

Author:	charliewood [ Tue Jun 19, 2012 2:10 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Oscar Schmidt 12 string restoration
Tai I meant no offense - I realize its paying work, and you shouldnt turn it down for any of the reasons I stated... Your an awesome repair guy and I enjoy your threads... your also one of the few who posts repair threads here, and ultimately rebuilding these older models will give you insight into the builders methods making you a better luthier in the process... so dont mind me... Im just a bit embittered about repair work in general right at the moment, it seems like theres always some popping up preventing me from actual building projects Im doing... however the only thing I get paid from is repairs at the moment.. and I relish the day that will change.. My menial repairs dont come anywhere close to your epic rebuilds - good job bro! Keep up the good work.. Cheers Charliewood

Author:	Tai Fu [ Wed Jun 20, 2012 5:47 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Oscar Schmidt 12 string restoration
I wish I can just build and make my living only from building like those famous luthiers who have high prices and long waiting list, but I gotta be able to restore vintage guitars before I can get there. Even menial repairs can make you a better overall builder as you would have a better understanding of all make and model of guitars. Besides, it's so much easier to build from scratch than repair an old guitar, because there are a lot of old components that can't simply be replaced, not to mention sometimes retopping a vintage guitar isn't an option (even if the top is badly damaged) because it's the top that gives it the sound that makes that guitar great in the first place. Here are a few more things I did today... Routed for the truss rod, had to use a 1/2" top baring bit because there's just no way I can use an edge guide to route a finished neck. I made the slot too wide so I took a bunch of veneers and glued it into the slot to make it narrower. 4 layers of veneer is all it took. I will route for the reinforcement when it arrives. I now turn my attention towards the fingerboard. I trued one side of the fingerboard on my belt/disc sander, then used the Wagner to flatten it, and finally smoothed it out on the sander again (it is impossible for me to get perfectly perpendicular table to the spindle, so I just thickness it the best I can, then smooth it out by hand or sanding). The addition of the belt disc sander turned a 3 day job into a half day job. The fingerboard slotted and profiled. I think the slots are probably off by .01" or something but its the best I can do without a template, because no known template exist for the 26.5" 12 string guitar (I checked LMI and even wanted to have them slot it for me so that I can avoid messing up on this). Finished fingerboard.

Author:	Chris Pile [ Wed Jun 20, 2012 8:52 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Oscar Schmidt 12 string restoration
Doing very well, Tai!

Author:	jfmckenna [ Wed Jun 20, 2012 9:22 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Oscar Schmidt 12 string restoration
I thought the same thing too, that this guitar is not worth repairing. But years ago when I did lot's of repairs I've done some pretty serious restoration work that I deemed was not worth it but the customer wanted it. I usually tell them that the cost of the work will be more than a new guitar but then they often say things like, "yeah but it was my grand fathers guitar.." and so on. Sentimental value as it is. And it's true you can learn a lot of very good skills doing work like this and it's quite rewarding as well. In fact today I don't do much common repairs any more and will only take on restoration projects and what I consider the fun stuff.

Author:	Tai Fu [ Thu Jun 21, 2012 9:19 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Oscar Schmidt 12 string restoration
more stuff Top removal Inside the box I decided to glue the new fingerboard back on, and just installed an adjustable truss rod and left the reinforcement out. The truss rod weights almost as much as the neck without the fingerboard so I decided I don't need to add more weight and difficulty by adding more stuff to it. Also the truss rod itself is very stiff.

Author:	Joe Hill [ Sat Jun 23, 2012 2:09 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Oscar Schmidt 12 string restoration
Hey Tai, what is the grey on the back inside lower bout? Joe

Author:	Tai Fu [ Sat Jun 23, 2012 2:11 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Oscar Schmidt 12 string restoration
Joe Hill wrote: Hey Tai, what is the grey on the back inside lower bout? Joe I don't know, some kind of a dust that built up over the years.

Author:	Tai Fu [ Sat Jun 23, 2012 8:40 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Oscar Schmidt 12 string restoration
An update.. The customer saw a neck for this guitar, and its dovetail instead of this butt joint construction, and he says he's thinking of getting that. He said the neck is shaved down on the original and he would prefer having a fatter neck. So now I am waiting for him to say what he wants to do. I would charge him extra to install the new neck because it would mean replacing the neck block and cutting a dovetail recess into the new neck block, and also the work on the previous neck would not be refunded since I've already used up supplies to fix that up.

Author:	Tai Fu [ Wed Jun 27, 2012 7:39 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Oscar Schmidt 12 string restoration
Piecing some things together Removing the neck block

Author:	WudWerkr [ Wed Jun 27, 2012 8:22 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Oscar Schmidt 12 string restoration
Nice work Tai !!

Author:	Tai Fu [ Fri Jun 29, 2012 10:02 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Oscar Schmidt 12 string restoration
Sorry, its been a few days since any progress... I was busy with a lot of other stuff so I couldn't get any work done. Top is glued back together... the runout on the top is terrible and so I gotta be very careful with tapes, sometimes you can pull a fiber off and rip a hole in the top! I guess they didn't pay attention to runouts back then. I am also gluing the side back together, and that is going to be a slow process because the side is always under tension, meaning if I try and clamp a crack together they want to offset a bit, or pucker a bit too. Only solution I have for this is to close the crack by gluing reinforcements in the back... will require a lot of wood and add some weight but it gives absolute assurance that the guitar will be stable.

Author:	Tai Fu [ Mon Jul 02, 2012 12:42 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Oscar Schmidt 12 string restoration
My least favorite part of the repair process, gluing the broken sides back together. This is going to take several days as I need to clamp and reinforce every one of those cracks, the heavy clamp and the loose sides make things difficult. I've decided to tack the side back together with CA (most of the breaks are fairly tight so CA will hold them together) then come back and reinforce them, so that I don't have to worry about causing further damage.

Author:	Tai Fu [ Fri Jul 06, 2012 12:10 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Oscar Schmidt 12 string restoration
Gluing the braces back. There will be some major reinforcement in the upper bout.

Author:	Mitch Johnson [ Fri Jul 06, 2012 11:29 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Oscar Schmidt 12 string restoration
Another great post Tai! Really enjoying it!

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