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| New Science! http://luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=37128 |
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| Author: | Eric Reid [ Tue Jul 17, 2012 4:08 pm ] |
| Post subject: | New Science! |
Those of you who don't frequent the Delcamp forum will have missed this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y7-MgTbHYKc I can only say I'm shocked that this technique was developed in Germany, and not here in California. |
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| Author: | charliewood [ Tue Jul 17, 2012 5:17 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: New Science! |
Mabye its a good way to improve sound of an instrument, mabye its a good way to get a crack started>? Cheers Charlie |
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| Author: | matt jacobs [ Tue Jul 17, 2012 6:47 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: New Science! |
I fail to see how "drilling" to the chin rest would affect the sound of the viola. |
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| Author: | klooker [ Tue Jul 17, 2012 7:09 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: New Science! |
matt jacobs wrote: I fail to see how "drilling" to the chin rest would affect the sound of the viola. If it's attached to the viola, it's coupled so theoretically, it can change the sound. I'm curious about his first customers who didn't come back. Kevin Looker |
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| Author: | mkellyvrod [ Tue Jul 17, 2012 7:14 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: New Science! |
I don't know about acupuncture, but now I'm tempted to try French polishing with a prayer cloth. |
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| Author: | Tony_in_NYC [ Tue Jul 17, 2012 7:38 pm ] |
| Post subject: | New Science! |
I'm not impressed. I can totally change the sound of any instrument by dimpling it with my monkey wrench. Science! |
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| Author: | ernie [ Tue Jul 17, 2012 7:40 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: New Science! |
The pin marks on vln family instruments are made by the luthiers to mark their progress, and divide the numbers to create symmetry.Personally I think this fellow is just another violin con artist, coming out with a new twist to con the feeble minded.Sadly,the violin world is full of puffers, con-men, loonies, mad scientists etc. 
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| Author: | Kim [ Tue Jul 17, 2012 8:13 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: New Science! |
ernie wrote: Sadly,the violin world is full of puffers, con-men, loonies, mad scientists etc. Like those who use a group of players to blind test a six pack of violins in a 'hotel room' of all places and then present their results as valid science just because they have a PHD in acoustics.  I think more often than not such things are undertaken in hope the controversy generated will promote the name of the presenter rather than with any real concern over the subject matter...W.C. Fields put it best when he invited the press of the day to write anything they like about him just as long as they got his name right. Cheers Kim |
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| Author: | Eric Reid [ Tue Jul 17, 2012 8:30 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: New Science! |
klooker wrote: matt jacobs wrote: I fail to see how "drilling" to the chin rest would affect the sound of the viola. If it's attached to the viola, it's coupled so theoretically, it can change the sound. I'm curious about his first customers who didn't come back. Kevin Looker I'm curious about the customers who did return. That could be a very profitable mailing list. Either you believe, or you don't. For all you doubters, I can only say, "Have you tried it?" I, for one, am convinced that Herr Schumann is entirely sincere. Guys, this is very subtle, advanced stuff. I'm pretty sure even Trevor's book doesn't cover the topic. I'm thinking of taking it one step further. Maybe if I mounted a needle on a ToneRite ... |
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| Author: | WudWerkr [ Tue Jul 17, 2012 9:04 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: New Science! |
I would like to see the end results of the method applied to a banjo ! |
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| Author: | theguitarwhisperer [ Tue Jul 17, 2012 10:59 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: New Science! |
"An idea he pulled out of thin air!" says the narrator. Sounds about right. Maybe she should have "An idea he pulled right out of his a$$!" |
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| Author: | Jim Watts [ Wed Jul 18, 2012 12:04 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: New Science! |
Oh come on, are you guys really trying to tell me you can't hear the differance? 
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| Author: | peterm [ Wed Jul 18, 2012 1:19 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: New Science! |
I do acupuncture on all my guitars. 6 holes on the headstock, six on the bridge and one on the tail wedge... It works really good! Some customers request an extra hole on the heel... |
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| Author: | John Coloccia [ Wed Jul 18, 2012 5:27 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: New Science! |
I'm sorry, Herr Klamptup, but zer iz nuzzing wrong mit ze instrument! Your fingerz und chin, on ze other hand, are defekt! Now pleeze, holdz still. |
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| Author: | bluescreek [ Wed Jul 18, 2012 5:42 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: New Science! |
Vas is slos ???? Bull Shiten! |
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| Author: | Mike Dotson [ Wed Jul 18, 2012 9:58 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: New Science! |
Oh this one is hoot. I guess it's not the age of an instrument that makes the vintage ones sound so good, it's the 'patina' so get out there and beat 'em up boys! 
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| Author: | matt jacobs [ Wed Jul 18, 2012 11:54 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: New Science! |
klooker wrote: matt jacobs wrote: I fail to see how "drilling" to the chin rest would affect the sound of the viola. If it's attached to the viola, it's coupled so theoretically, it can change the sound. I'm curious about his first customers who didn't come back. Kevin Looker I'm far from a viol family expert, but they are designed to interact as little as possible with the top, besides after one puts their big melon on the chin rest, it's acoustically pretty much dead. Anyway I think the whole thing is a load BS. |
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| Author: | toddb [ Wed Jul 18, 2012 12:04 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: New Science! |
I'd like to offer a new marketing plan to any builder who might be interested. This is intended as an comprehensive list, aimed as much at the musician as at the instrument. 1. Rename company to "New Age Instruments." 2. Perform acupuncture on all instruments. (Unless the instrument finds it unnecessary). 3. Offer acupuncture to all customers as an added bonus. (Regular scheduled visits an option... bring your instrument too). 4. "Power Crystals" included in instrument case accessory compartment, as I thought It might help improve sonic frequency issues. (This is just an idea I came up with out of thin air). 5. Variety of incense cones to be place on cut end of guitar string @ tuning machine. And here's the campaign slogan... "Remember, it's not the result of fine craftsmanship that makes an instrument sound better. We just make you feel better about things, so you only think our instruments sound better. And, after all, Isn't that all that really matters?" This is only a beginning outline, so feel free to post any additional ideas as they pop into your heads, as I'm sure anything you can imagine will undoubtedly improve the sound of any instrument. |
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| Author: | meddlingfool [ Wed Jul 18, 2012 12:06 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: New Science! |
I can't believe you guys are dissing this. Especially with that little video where it clearly proves beyond doubt how the principle works, where the teeny tiny hole stops sound from radiating in the carefully chosen direction. How can you not be convinced? It's a shame that the guitar buying public wants shiny topped guitars, otherwise we would finally, after all these years of fruitless toil, be able to introduce good sounding guitars into the marketplace... |
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| Author: | Robert Renick [ Wed Jul 18, 2012 12:56 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: New Science! |
I will trust that a professional orchestra musician, who has spent a lifetime developing sensitive ears, hours analyzing every nuance of tone will not be fooled. During my short apprenticeship with a violin maker, he did discuss the puncture marks within some old instruments, he thought they were left from some big tongs that were used to make marks to graduate the plate. I will not doubt this man's expertise, and certainly would not mock him. I look forward to some quiet time tonight to tap and puncture some scrap. I found the video very interesting. However, I do still believe the world is flat. Rob |
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| Author: | Alan Carruth [ Wed Jul 18, 2012 1:25 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: New Science! |
comfyfoot wrote: "I will trust that a professional orchestra musician, who has spent a lifetime developing sensitive ears, hours analyzing every nuance of tone will not be fooled." I recur to what I call 'Feynman's Dictum': "You are the easiest person for you to fool." One reason science relies so much on measurements is that it's much more difficult to fool a dB meter than a person. As to the blindfold test of violins in a hotel room: that one looked pretty good to me. It also might help explain why we've been having such a hard time figuring out what's different about those high-priced old violins: maybe there _is_ no difference! |
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| Author: | Clay S. [ Wed Jul 18, 2012 4:24 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: New Science! |
Maybe we should tattoo our guitars. Think of all the good vibrations we would get from all those little puncture marks!  And, you know, to beat a tattoo is a musical thing...
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| Author: | Quine [ Wed Jul 18, 2012 5:43 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: New Science! |
I hope this catches on. Then I could have an excuse for the dings and scratches I don't see before finishing. It would save me tons of time! I wonder what type of expert would claim a difference in sound based on just two recordings. I've never tried but I suspect there would be big variation in the sound graphs each time its played even with the same player. I think you'd need many recordings averaged together before and after to prove something changed. This sounds like a placebo effect to me. |
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| Author: | Bryan Bear [ Wed Jul 18, 2012 11:28 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: New Science! |
I think my favorite part was the close up of the impulse hammer. With high tech tools like this it must be science.
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| Author: | Shaw [ Thu Jul 19, 2012 1:58 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: New Science! |
charliewood wrote: Mabye its a good way to improve sound of an instrument, mabye its a good way to get a crack started>? Cheers Charlie Or a good way to just get your money. |
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