Official Luthiers Forum! :: View topic - Brazilian rose wood slabs

Hi there,

I'm new to the building life and my first attempt is a neck-through bass. In my quest for wood, I have come across a GORGEOUS piece of Brazilian Rosewood from the top of an old table. It's 52" x 25" x 5/8". Now I know that this type of wood is endangered and hard to get without a lot of legal documents and certification. This table is 150 years old and I can prove it, so the legality of the wood is not an issue. I'm just curious of the value. What would an item like this be worth? I want to start chopping it up but considering my skill level and the fact that I really just want a solid body bass, it seems like it would be better off in the hands of a skilled luthier. I mentioned it in a guitar shop and was immediately offered $1000. That's when I began to realize this was out of my league. If somebody could give me an idea of what I actually have, I'ld really appreciate it. Thanks.

No pic? Why not? Are you sure it's not veneered? Even back then they did this.

Brazilian back & side sets that look that nice are usually at least $1000.

The real question is how many could you successfully get out of it. This is a gamble but if the table is over 100 years old, the wood should be pretty stable & less risky.

Theoretically, with a Lenox Woodmaster CT & assuming a kerf of 0.04" (they spec 0.035"), you could get 4 slices 0.126" each out of a 5/8" thick board.

Kevin Looker

I resaw a lot of wood with that blade and effectively kerf is about 1/16" for a perfect cut after saw marks are removed. You could maybe get 4 1/8" slices if it were 3/4" thick, but I'd say no way with a 5/8" thick board.

The pic of the end grain looks veneered to me, although the pic is blurry. Great shot of the doorknob, though! End grain of solid Brazilian would be nearly black.

Author:	thelowmax [ Mon Jul 30, 2012 11:25 pm ]
Post subject:	Brazilian rose wood slabs
Hi there, I'm new to the building life and my first attempt is a neck-through bass. In my quest for wood, I have come across a GORGEOUS piece of Brazilian Rosewood from the top of an old table. It's 52" x 25" x 5/8". Now I know that this type of wood is endangered and hard to get without a lot of legal documents and certification. This table is 150 years old and I can prove it, so the legality of the wood is not an issue. I'm just curious of the value. What would an item like this be worth? I want to start chopping it up but considering my skill level and the fact that I really just want a solid body bass, it seems like it would be better off in the hands of a skilled luthier. I mentioned it in a guitar shop and was immediately offered $1000. That's when I began to realize this was out of my league. If somebody could give me an idea of what I actually have, I'ld really appreciate it. Thanks.

Author:	Tony_in_NYC [ Mon Jul 30, 2012 11:57 pm ]
Post subject:	Brazilian rose wood slabs
Can you post a pic? It's most likely made of several pieces glued together so more suited to fretboards or bridges but you never know.

Author:	thelowmax [ Tue Jul 31, 2012 12:29 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Brazilian rose wood slabs
This is actually two pieces that have been joined together to form 25,3/8" wide. However, there has been a hinge installed so, ultimately, it had been cut to three pieces. Each original piece has been cut from the center of the log. The 3 pieces are 11,1/8", 6,1/4", and 8" x 52,3/4" x 25,3/8". Definitely more than fretboard lumber.

Author:	Shaw [ Tue Jul 31, 2012 1:48 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Brazilian rose wood slabs
No pic? Why not? Are you sure it's not veneered? Even back then they did this.

Author:	thelowmax [ Tue Jul 31, 2012 7:28 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Brazilian rose wood slabs
This definitely not veneered.

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Author:	guitarjtb [ Tue Jul 31, 2012 7:30 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Brazilian rose wood slabs
thelowmax wrote: Hi there, I'm new to the building life and my first attempt is a neck-through bass. In my quest for wood, I have come across a GORGEOUS piece of Brazilian Rosewood from the top of an old table. It's 52" x 25" x 5/8". Now I know that this type of wood is endangered and hard to get without a lot of legal documents and certification. This table is 150 years old and I can prove it, so the legality of the wood is not an issue. I'm just curious of the value. What would an item like this be worth? I want to start chopping it up but considering my skill level and the fact that I really just want a solid body bass, it seems like it would be better off in the hands of a skilled luthier. I mentioned it in a guitar shop and was immediately offered $1000. That's when I began to realize this was out of my league. If somebody could give me an idea of what I actually have, I'ld really appreciate it. Thanks. I'm not sure you would want a bass made entirely from BRW, unless you have 2 men and a small boy to help you carry it. Seriously, that wood as described is worth much more for other purposes if it is not veneer. I would NOT start cutting on it. James

Author:	thelowmax [ Tue Jul 31, 2012 8:15 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Brazilian rose wood slabs
I'm not sure you would want a bass made entirely from BRW, unless you have 2 men and a small boy to help you carry it. Seriously, that wood as described is worth much more for other purposes if it is not veneer. I would NOT start cutting on it. James[/quote] No, I wouldn't cut it until I knew what it was, what it was worth, and how much I can ruin it. I'm not a complete knucklehead, just part one. Originally, I got the Rosewood for a fretboard. My bass neck will be made of birdseye or tiger maple with a swamp ash or alder body. Let's see if this works. http://i1231.photobucket.com/albums/ee5 ... 0_6338.jpg

Author:	David LaPlante [ Tue Jul 31, 2012 8:22 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Brazilian rose wood slabs
I'm assuming this is the current offering on Ebay with a BIN of $1999.? Your photos are not clear insofar as showing the detail of the edgegrain (which looks to me like a veneered cap rather than the edge of solid wood). There is also no picture of the underside of the boards which would tell the trale of whether it's veneered or not. I've purchased many Brazilian planks and had guitar sets sawn from them and I can tell you that usable commercial grade sets are not a foregone conclusion from old planks. Checks and other problems can cause sections to be unusable and succesfully patterning out usable sets can be simply a matter of luck or no. At present, two or three totally usable primo sets in hand might be worth your BIN but "on the hoof" one still has the costs of processing as well as considerable risk involved. Better pics would be a help to someone deciding whether or not to take the plunge here.

Author:	thelowmax [ Tue Jul 31, 2012 8:26 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Brazilian rose wood slabs
Shaw wrote: No pic? Why not? Are you sure it's not veneered? Even back then they did this. Here's a shot of the end grain.

Author:	Tony_in_NYC [ Tue Jul 31, 2012 8:27 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Brazilian rose wood slabs
Just as I suspected. It is terrible. Probably worse than terrible. You better let me pick it up and take it off your hands before the CITES police show up to put you in wood prison! Yup. More than fretboards and bridges in that table. It's hard to tell from the pic, but is that solid all the way through? It must weigh a ton if it is. Edit: I just saw the new pic above this post. It is solid but not as thick as I thought. Still sweet though! Just PM me your address and I will come get it.

Author:	SteveSmith [ Tue Jul 31, 2012 8:57 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Brazilian rose wood slabs
what a sweet find

Author:	James Ringelspaugh [ Tue Jul 31, 2012 9:49 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Brazilian rose wood slabs
That's a pretty sweet board.

Author:	klooker [ Tue Jul 31, 2012 10:19 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Brazilian rose wood slabs
Brazilian back & side sets that look that nice are usually at least $1000. The real question is how many could you successfully get out of it. This is a gamble but if the table is over 100 years old, the wood should be pretty stable & less risky. Theoretically, with a Lenox Woodmaster CT & assuming a kerf of 0.04" (they spec 0.035"), you could get 4 slices 0.126" each out of a 5/8" thick board. Kevin Looker

Author:	thelowmax [ Tue Jul 31, 2012 10:24 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Brazilian rose wood slabs
Better pics would be a help to someone deciding whether or not to take the plunge here.[/quote] Thanks for your input. Though I should add, that while I am a novice guitar builder, I have extensive experience with antiques and furniture building in general. I have not a clue. . Thanks again.

Author:	philosofriend [ Thu Aug 02, 2012 11:49 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Brazilian rose wood slabs
The sonic value of the wood would be better served by putting a 1/4 or 3/8 inch top layer on a light mahogony body, Les Paul style. I have recently played two solid rosewood electric six strings, and neither one had a tone noticeably better than conventional woods. One was a good amateur copy of a stratocaster with a vibrato bridge, the other was a "factory custom" one-off Les Paul with a longer scale length and the bridge further down the body. I really wanted them to sound fantastic, but they didn't. You could build a lot of necks and electric body tops with that wood, those being the parts that builders seem to agree benefit from tropical hardwoods. If you like acoustics, think of how many outstanding old flat tops were made with Brazillion rosewood bridges and fretboards, so that the vibrations from both ends of the string are first greeted by this beautiful resonant wood that seems to have the magic property of loving both low and high vibrations.

Author:	philosofriend [ Thu Aug 02, 2012 11:52 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Brazilian rose wood slabs
The sonic value of the wood would be better served by putting a 1/4 or 3/8 inch top layer on a light mahogony body, Les Paul style. I have recently played two solid rosewood electric six strings, and neither one had a tone noticeably better than conventional woods. One was a good amateur copy of a stratocaster with a vibrato bridge, the other was a "factory custom" one-off Les Paul with a longer scale length and the bridge further down the body. I really wanted them to sound fantastic, but they didn't. You could build a lot of necks and electric body tops with that wood, those being the parts that builders seem to agree benefit from tropical hardwoods. If you like acoustics, think of how many outstanding old flat tops were made with Brazillion rosewood bridges and fretboards, so that the vibrations from both ends of the string are first greeted by this beautiful resonant wood that seems to have the magic property of loving both low and high vibrations.

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Author:	thelowmax [ Tue Jul 31, 2012 10:38 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Brazilian rose wood slabs
klooker wrote: Brazilian back & side sets that look that nice are usually at least $1000. The real question is how many could you successfully get out of it. This is a gamble but if the table is over 100 years old, the wood should be pretty stable & less risky. Theoretically, with a Lenox Woodmaster CT & assuming a kerf of 0.04" (they spec 0.035"), you could get 4 slices 0.126" each out of a 5/8" thick board. Kevin Looker Thanks a lot. I figured a decent acoustic set for around $1000 but wasn't sure of what was needed or how much could be gotten in wood or dollars. I'm thinking I'm going to pull my ad until I have a better idea of what to do. Thanks for all your help. Andrew

Author:	guitarjtb [ Tue Jul 31, 2012 11:06 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Brazilian rose wood slabs
WOW!!!!

Author:	klooker [ Tue Jul 31, 2012 11:21 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Brazilian rose wood slabs
lex_luthier wrote: I resaw a lot of wood with that blade and effectively kerf is about 1/16" for a perfect cut after saw marks are removed. You could maybe get 4 1/8" slices if it were 3/4" thick, but I'd say no way with a 5/8" thick board. Ok, let's check the math. Board thickness = 0.625" Your effective kerf after removing all saw marks = 1/16" = 0.0625" 3 kerfs = 3/16" = 0.1875 0.625 - 0.1875 = 0.4375 0.4375 / 4 = 0.109" per slice after removing all saw marks. I get 5 useable slices from a 3/4" board with my CT (over 0.090" final thickness after removing saw marks) Kevin Looker

Author:	TRein [ Tue Jul 31, 2012 11:21 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Brazilian rose wood slabs
The pic of the end grain looks veneered to me, although the pic is blurry. Great shot of the doorknob, though! End grain of solid Brazilian would be nearly black.

Author:	Don Williams [ Tue Jul 31, 2012 12:02 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Brazilian rose wood slabs
I would tend to leave it as a beautiful table...but if you must cut it up, there are a lot of us folks in the NEL group who could help. http://www.newenglandluthiers.org If I can help, let me know. Don Williams

Author:	thelowmax [ Tue Jul 31, 2012 12:25 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Brazilian rose wood slabs
TRein wrote: The pic of the end grain looks veneered to me, although the pic is blurry. Great shot of the doorknob, though! End grain of solid Brazilian would be nearly black. Ouch

Author:	thelowmax [ Tue Jul 31, 2012 12:41 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Brazilian rose wood slabs
TRein wrote: The pic of the end grain looks veneered to me, although the pic is blurry. Great shot of the doorknob, though! End grain of solid Brazilian would be nearly black. What do you mean? I'm not in the picture. Sorry guys... veneer.

Author:	jeb98 [ Tue Jul 31, 2012 3:02 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Brazilian rose wood slabs
Yeah, I really don't see how ANY conclusions can be drawn from that blurry picture, especially saying that the sets of this wood would sell for $1000. Antique furniture was veneered often, with walnut crotch, mahogany crotch, brazilian rosewood, etc. Even if it's not veneered, there's no picture showing the figure of the wood, is it quartersawn, wildly flatsawn, rift, etc? The brazilian rosewood antique furniture I've seen (which was almost always veneered) is never quartersawn, and has kind of crazy figure which may not work well in back and sides. I would guess it is veneered. It is often VERY hard to tell if it is veneered because they covered all sides in veneer.