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Would you use this neck?
http://luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=37312		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  DennisK [ Tue Jul 31, 2012 10:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Would you use this neck?
I bought this Indian rosewood neck blank from LMI a couple years ago, back when I first started building. I'm a little miffed, because I assumed such a well known supplier would know what was suitable, but looking at it again now, I'm not so sure. I shudder to think what I would have gotten if I'd ordered the 2nd grade.

I'm mainly concerned about the curvature of the grain, which is pretty consistent along the length of it and thus unavoidable. It's not that bad, but I do think it will move a bit with humidity change. It's 26" long, and if I do use it, it will be on a 12-fret, 25" scale neck, so less than half of it will be actual neck shaft. Over such a short distance, the curvature may not be significant enough to worry about, hence my asking.

Also, it appears to be cut from near the center of the tree, with whole quarter-circle growth rings at one edge. It's about 3 1/4" wide though, so I could cut off as much as 3/4" from the rift edge, and glue headstock wings to get back up to width there.
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Author:  quentinjazz [ Tue Jul 31, 2012 11:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Would you use this neck?
Hi,

I think I would not use it like this, but I'll split it in two pieces and make a pretty lamination.

What about the weight of a rosewood neck? Is it much heavier than a mahogany neck?

Quentin
Author:  Alexandru Marian [ Wed Aug 01, 2012 5:33 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Would you use this neck?
It's not *that* bad, but I would too split and flip one, (the center tree area will fall off completely after carving) and insert a center strip/lam according to your taste (i would add only 2mm of ebony just to have something visual to separate the halves) Yes it will weight more. The mahogany I measured ranged from 550 to 650 Kg/m3, Indian rosewood from 750 to 1000 Kg, usually being in the 800-850 range. This one is not likely more than 850. The heavy samples are very very dark, tightly grained and loaded with oils.
Author:  Mattia Valente [ Wed Aug 01, 2012 6:20 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Would you use this neck?
Is it stable and hasn't moved since you got it? If so, build with it.

I would have zero problems using that as a one-piece (electric) neck blank as-is. Grain is straight enough, it's very close to being well quartered, and there are several million flat sawn necks with less ideal grain that are holding up more than fine. I would mostly go with a laminate for aesthetic reasons - I find stacked heals visually distracting at the best of times, certainly in woods that have a bit more grain than mahogany or cedrella.
Author:  Alexandru Marian [ Wed Aug 01, 2012 6:42 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Would you use this neck?
Looking again, I'd use it in one piece too. The 2/3 on the right are straight enough; just cut the scarf in the area were the grain bends.
Author:  Ken Franklin [ Wed Aug 01, 2012 11:29 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Would you use this neck?
I would have sent it back as soon as I got it. LMI is very good about returns.
Author:  DennisK [ Wed Aug 01, 2012 12:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Would you use this neck?
Ken Franklin wrote:
I would have sent it back as soon as I got it. LMI is very good about returns.

That's the thing. I didn't know any better at the time I bought it, and assumed it must be good if they sold it as top grade. Now it's been 2 years, and I suppose I could ask them, but the price has doubled since then so I'm not sure how that would play into it.

Oh well. Thanks for the opinions, everyone. I think I'll give it the stamp of rejection for now, and use a walnut neck on this build. The more I look at it, the worse it looks. From the side grain, it looks like it has a little bit of curve in the other plane as well, particularly near one end. Surely such a bent tree of dense wood would have a lot of stress in it.

On the topic of weight, it would be heavy, but not ridiculously much. This one's about 52lbs/ft3 (833kg/m3). The short-ish scale and 12 fret neck means it doesn't extend too far outward, plus I'd planned on using Gotoh stealth tuners which are very light weight, and the back/sides are ebony, so that ought to counter-balance as well. I guess now with walnut, I can save some cash by using regular open back tuners, and save the stealths for a future project :)

If anyone wants it, it's free to a good home if you pay shipping.
Author:  Alexandru Marian [ Wed Aug 01, 2012 12:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Would you use this neck?
If it hasn't moved a lot since you got it, I wouldn't suspect anything wrong just from the looks of the grain.

Cut the scarf and then halve the neck part. Wait 1-2-3 months as much as you can. If there is tension, it will eventually get out some. Then when you have waited enough, plane it straight and joint it.

One thing I do with every neck is to slice a narrow side section and watch it over several days. Some remain pretty much unchanged which is good, other twist even a lot. Such a neck gets shredded for linings.
Author:  ernie [ Wed Aug 01, 2012 1:58 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Would you use this neck?
Yo, dennis are you going to use that B walnut n. stock I gave you??. Let me know how it turns out.Have not carved any of that neck stock yet it/s all from the same source.You could recycle the neck into future fingerboards or bridges??. cheers ernie.
Author:  DennisK [ Wed Aug 01, 2012 6:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Would you use this neck?
ernie wrote:
Yo, dennis are you going to use that B walnut n. stock I gave you??. Let me know how it turns out.Have not carved any of that neck stock yet it/s all from the same source.You could recycle the neck into future fingerboards or bridges??. cheers ernie.

Either that, or a Peruvian walnut neck that I also bought from LMI a long time ago. I dug around in the Peruvian walnut at Metro Hardwoods when I was there last week, but I guess you picked out all the good ones already :lol:

I am using that light colored neck blank you gave me (pear, was it?) on my challenge build. Got the scarf joint done, now to see if I can get a heel block out of the remaining length of it...

And yeah, I could make fingerboards and such out of the Indian neck, or perhaps an ukulele back/side set if I ever have room to get a bandsaw. Or maybe I will try doing the flip lamination after all. The heel will be vertically laminated anyway, so it shouldn't look out of place or anything to continue the seam along the whole neck, with no center stripe. The quarter-round rings at the edge will actually be quite useful for the heel lamination, to make a natural transition from quartered shaft to flatsawn heel :)
Author:  ernie [ Wed Aug 01, 2012 8:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Would you use this neck?
Your right again dennis.I cherry picked out the nicest pcs of peruvian oops_sign .If you run out, and need more pear wood I have some more. Hang on to the EIR .I/m sure you will find a future use for it, Walnut is a wonderful wood to carve especially when it/s not totally dry.Haven/t carved a guitar neck out of walnut, but did a few uke necks.Personally .I prefer the look and workability of walnut over h.mahog and sp cedar IMHO cheers ernie. bliss
Author:  LaurieW [ Sat Aug 04, 2012 6:41 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Would you use this neck?
Dennis,

A friend used one that looked like yours, but ripped and flipped one side and its been perfect for 5 years now.

You and I must have bought from the same batch. I have 3 that look like yours. Mine are slightly more quartered, but have ugly knots in them on the edge of the board. I cut one up for headplates and rosette blanks. I have every intention to rip the remaining ones and flip one side, but use them for my own personal guitar just in case. I called LMI to voice my concern with the knots, and I remember them telling me that if I built the necks, and the knots didn't come out, they'd replace the blanks. gaah After I built the necks....a little too late then duh In their defence, the Peruvian Walnut blanks I bought were absolutely perfect, and suprisingly cheap back then.

I used Black Walnut on guitar #1 and love it, and have bought more blanks since!

I hope you post pics when you get the guitar finished.

Laurie
Author:  DennisK [ Sat Aug 04, 2012 9:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Would you use this neck?
Thanks, that's great to know the flip matched one has held up through seasonal variation. I'll go ahead and do the same.

Sad to hear that it was a whole bad batch people were buying from. Should have at least been sold as 2nd grade, IMO.

Gotta agree on your other points as well... the two Peruvian walnut blanks I bought around the same time are indeed excellent, and black walnut is also one of my favorite neck woods. It's like mahogany, but dark colored, grows all over the place around here, and never has interlocked grain :D

And no need to wait for finished pictures of the guitar this neck is for. You can follow along the build thread here :) http://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10130&t=37136
Updates may be slow though, due to working on my challenge build as well.
Author:  John Arnold [ Sun Aug 05, 2012 5:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Would you use this neck?
Yes, I would.
IMHO, the grain must be much more curved than that to have any problems with stability.
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