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Neck volute/backstrap alternatives
http://luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=37381		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  Ken Jones [ Wed Aug 08, 2012 9:50 am ]
Post subject:  Neck volute/backstrap alternatives
One of my favorite aspects of neck building is shaping the volute, which I've done on all eleven of my guitars. I love watching it materialize -- it's form is such a natural result of the various functional design elements that come together at that "pivotal" location. Granted it is merely a vestigial remnant of the old Martin bridle joint, but an elegant one nonetheless.
Attachment:
188770_198944713458478_5569730_n.jpg

Problem is, I feel it's time to evolve. I want to start using a backstrap for neck/headstock integrity, and I'm thinking this is one of those "one or the other" scenarios -- the volute is squarely in the way of the backstrap performing it's duty. I know most folks terminate their backstrap at that little belt sander swoosh, but that seems to negate much of the structural integrity that a mandolin-style backstrap provides in continuing past the nut/fulcrum point down into the neck.

So I'm wondering if there are some other ways to skin this cat. How do you all address this area, and I'd also like to hear your thoughts on the necessity of a backstrap altogether. Interestingly, in a conversation with Paul Heumiller, he said most of his customers expect a backstrap at the Dream Guitars price point.

Ken
Author:  ballbanjos [ Wed Aug 08, 2012 2:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Neck volute/backstrap alternatives
Doug Unger uses a combination of a backstrap and a volute on many of his wonderful banjos: http://home.comcast.net/~banjopages/UngerFC/UngerFC.html Might be another point of departure for you in coming up with your design.

Dave
Author:  sdsollod [ Wed Aug 08, 2012 6:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Neck volute/backstrap alternatives
Here's my back strap...
Author:  RaymundH [ Fri Aug 10, 2012 7:13 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Neck volute/backstrap alternatives
I think Jim Olson's backstraps are the nicest in the business!

http://www.olsonguitars.com/guitar_appts.html
Author:  Matt Bouchie [ Fri Aug 10, 2012 10:19 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Neck volute/backstrap alternatives
Here's what I did for the 12 fret 12 string SJ I'm working on in class. Cherry neck with walnut back strap. 2 coats of varnish on it so far. Alan really helped me make sure it came out looking pretty good.

Matt
Author:  Alan Carruth [ Fri Aug 10, 2012 11:58 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Neck volute/backstrap alternatives
I'll note that Matt's using a V-joint, which is where the 'volute' comes from.

I've always thought of a 'backstrap' as continuing down the neck a ways, reinforcing things at the narrow point where the fingerboard ends.
Author:  Jim Watts [ Fri Aug 10, 2012 6:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Neck volute/backstrap alternatives
Here's what I do.
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back of head stock.jpg
Author:  CharlieT [ Fri Aug 10, 2012 8:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Neck volute/backstrap alternatives
Jim - I have several photos of your "backstraps" that I've saved for inspiration. To my eye, they are some of the most attractive I've seen.
Author:  Jim Watts [ Fri Aug 10, 2012 9:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Neck volute/backstrap alternatives
Thank you!
Author:  Ken Jones [ Fri Aug 10, 2012 10:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Neck volute/backstrap alternatives
Alan Carruth wrote:
I'll note that Matt's using a V-joint, which is where the 'volute' comes from.

I've always thought of a 'backstrap' as continuing down the neck a ways, reinforcing things at the narrow point where the fingerboard ends.


I did too, Alan, but I am blown away by those done by Jim Olsen, and Jim Watts. Thanks so much, Raymund and Jim. Thanks also to Steve, Dave, and Matt for sharing your inspiring designs. This gives me much to think about. In fact, I just had a thought... look out... What if the backstrap, that extended into the neck, also incorporated a volute, or perhaps a modern twist on the tradition... Hmmm... It would mean carving a .050" plate with a diamond in the middle from a .625" solid chunk of material, but the effect could be fantastic. That's it, I'm trying it on my next build...
Author:  Burton LeGeyt [ Fri Aug 10, 2012 11:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Neck volute/backstrap alternatives
I've done it a few ways. I was doing (and still do sometimes) a more pointed and edge defined "dart" like this one:

Image

I tried something new (from something old) on my last and like it much better and will certainly do it again, a decorated thin brass plate. Here is a photo of that:

Image

Image

I used the Stealth gotohs to hide beneath the plate but they unfortunately inspire no confidence. I think in the future I will modify the post on some nice open backs.

My favorite simple look is when the back of the headstock is flat and buts right up to the end of the FB barrel and then scoops away with a well defined arc. I saw that on an old Martin #2 once and have always remembered how much I liked it. Not flashy, but really classic.
Author:  NWflyonly [ Fri Aug 10, 2012 11:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Neck volute/backstrap alternatives
Wow Jim that is truly spectacular!
Author:  DennisK [ Sat Aug 11, 2012 12:52 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Neck volute/backstrap alternatives
Burton LeGeyt wrote:
I used the Stealth gotohs to hide beneath the plate but they unfortunately inspire no confidence.

What exactly do you mean by that? I've been wanting to try that style and bought a set, although I forgot to specify short posts so I'll be using them like any other tuners, exposed on the back of the headstock (good to try them out before permanently sealing in wood anyway, plus I don't want to pay shipping to exchange). The gears feel nice and tight and smooth on my set. I haven't tried them under tension yet, though. I know they have a tension limit of 44lbs, but that's pretty far above any normal guitar string.
Author:  Matt Bouchie [ Sat Aug 11, 2012 4:22 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Neck volute/backstrap alternatives
Alan Carruth wrote:
I'll note that Matt's using a V-joint, which is where the 'volute' comes from.

I've always thought of a 'backstrap' as continuing down the neck a ways, reinforcing things at the narrow point where the fingerboard ends.


Yeah, I probably should have said it was a v-joint. And it's not really a backstrap since it doesn't go down the neck much, but we still seem to call it that in class with the occasional qualification that it's really not one. It still looks pretty cool, though! :)

BTW, Burton's brass plate looks even cooler in person.

Matt
Author:  Burton LeGeyt [ Sat Aug 11, 2012 10:02 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Neck volute/backstrap alternatives
Dennis,

I wanted to love them but have been disappointed. There is a little cage on the top that is really only a press fit that holds everything together inside. I had one fail immediately upon stringing it up and a few others seem sketchy after a very short amount of time. I have a replacement set but don't expect it to be too different. I love the idea but I don't feel they are robust enough, even when hidden behind a backplate.
Author:  Burton LeGeyt [ Sat Aug 11, 2012 10:54 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Neck volute/backstrap alternatives
Thanks Filippo, Yes I did it on my little mill. It was tedious but I am happy with how it came out. Learned a bunch too, next time will be better.
Author:  charliewood [ Sat Aug 11, 2012 11:50 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Neck volute/backstrap alternatives
+1 on Jim Olsen and his appointments
Cheers
charliewood
Author:  Don Williams [ Sat Aug 11, 2012 4:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Neck volute/backstrap alternatives
I love the way Burton does things that are out-of-this-world cool, that look fantastic, and says, "next time it will come out better".

How? I ask !
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