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| Classical neck to body join with bolts/threaded inserts http://luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=37452 |
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| Author: | ernie [ Wed Aug 15, 2012 8:13 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Classical neck to body join with bolts/threaded inserts |
Does anyone out there join their classical guitars using 2 threaded inserts with bolts minus the mortise and tenon.? If so ,what technique did you use to flatten the heel to conform to the outside shape of the ribs. On kawaika/s uke site he uses a platen/jig and a sanding attachment on the bandsaw to mate the neck perfectly to the body.Then he uses epoxy to glue the joint together. I have joined uke necks by butt gluing the neck to the body. Using sandpaper taped on the ribs until the neck made a seamless joint. Have also butt joined the uke neck to the body using threaded inserts and bolts. All the books I/ve read have either the spanish neck/heel block system or a form of the mortise and tenon with the heel undercut to accomadate the body. |
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| Author: | douglas ingram [ Wed Aug 15, 2012 8:42 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Classical neck to body join with bolts/threaded inserts |
Yes, people do it, including the late Thomas Humphries. I've done it only once. The regular methods are well described. |
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| Author: | Alain Moisan [ Wed Aug 15, 2012 9:05 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Classical neck to body join with bolts/threaded inserts |
ernie wrote: Does anyone out there join their classical guitars using 2 threaded inserts with bolts minus the mortise and tenon.? Yep, I do. ernie wrote: If so ,what technique did you use to flatten the heel to conform to the outside shape of the ribs. By flossing sandpaper between the neck heel and the body until I get a nice joint, with the right angle and orientation of course (which can be tricky...). |
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| Author: | jfmckenna [ Thu Aug 16, 2012 7:32 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Classical neck to body join with bolts/threaded inserts |
Yeah I do this too. I made a sanding block out of mahogany. The block is convex on one side and concave on the other to the same radius. I use the block to radius the head block with the concave side and then use the convex side to radius the heal. I hit it with a chisel first to get it close and finish off with the block on 60 grit paper. This of course has to be done before the fret board is glues on. |
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| Author: | ernie [ Thu Aug 16, 2012 9:02 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Classical neck to body join with bolts/threaded inserts |
Fillipo I get my threaded steel inserts from the local ace hdwre. Who is your supplier ??thanks |
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| Author: | ernie [ Thu Aug 16, 2012 11:10 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Classical neck to body join with bolts/threaded inserts |
Thanks for the info filippo and for posting the pics for everyone to share. |
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| Author: | Mike Collins [ Thu Aug 16, 2012 1:03 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Classical neck to body join with bolts/threaded inserts |
I use the same inserts. Mcfeelys has them. Mike |
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| Author: | Jeff Highland [ Fri Aug 17, 2012 3:39 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Classical neck to body join with bolts/threaded inserts |
If you have an oscillating spindle sander, you can make a jig to sand in the body curvature and neck angle to the heel face. |
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| Author: | ernie [ Fri Aug 17, 2012 8:09 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Classical neck to body join with bolts/threaded inserts |
yes, I have a a clayton sander, Where would the jig be found thanks ernie |
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| Author: | John A [ Fri Aug 17, 2012 6:12 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Classical neck to body join with bolts/threaded inserts |
I think I am going to build my next one like this as well - or maybe with an M&T joint and some hardware. My current mando builds are like this - and I like the idea of being able to work on the neck and body separately. My first 3 classical were Spanish heel, and although they came out good - I can imagine that binding becomes easier as well as finishing and easier to carve the neck without damaging the body in just moving the body around so much. What size inserts are in the picture ? 1/4" ? |
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| Author: | Shaw [ Sat Aug 18, 2012 1:28 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Classical neck to body join with bolts/threaded inserts |
Filippo Morelli wrote: Ace Hardware was carrying these, though different stores carry different stuff. These are in the furniture section (for repair I suspect). They are imported by a company in the midwest. Filippo Filippo what do you use to install these? I have found some at the hardware like these that are difficult to install with a large screw driver. Is that the right tool to use? I have found others that have a hexagonal space for an Allen wrench but there were labeled for softwood. I have used them in hardwood though and they have worked but I would prefer to us the ones that are for hard wood. The Allen wrench hole made those easy to install....Mike |
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| Author: | ernie [ Sat Aug 18, 2012 7:27 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Classical neck to body join with bolts/threaded inserts |
I use a swivelling allen headed socket bit with a small ratchet from harbor freight, to install , gets into tight places like ukes. 1/8in bolts for ukes or 3/16 for classicals and 1/4in for steel strings. Correct me if I/m wrong as have not done a classsical or SS yet . Anyone know where to find that spindle sander jig for sanding neck to body joint?? |
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| Author: | MaxBishop [ Sat Aug 18, 2012 9:23 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Classical neck to body join with bolts/threaded inserts |
I am very interested in using this technique on my classical and flamenco builds. Earlier in this thread Jeff Highland said Quote: If you have an oscillating spindle sander, you can make a jig to sand in the body curvature and neck angle to the heel face. Can Jeff or anyone else provide or point us to information on making such a Jig? Thanks, Max |
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| Author: | Jeff Highland [ Sat Aug 18, 2012 5:11 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Classical neck to body join with bolts/threaded inserts |
Ok I haven't done this and I don't build that way anymore, but I came across this after I had been extemely frustrated trying to mate up ukulele necks to the curved upper Bout No Pictures, I don't remember who came up with this Use a large drum on your spindle sander. With a sheet of 1/2 plywood about 12" wide cut a hole in it just bigger than the drum and form a semicircular nose on about 1/2 greater in radius than the drum and then cut so that you have sort of a round nosed triangle that goes over the drum and extends to the side of the table for clamping. This gives you in effect a rub collar for your sanding drum similar to what you would have on a router. Now make up a holder from 1/2 ply for the neck with an accurate centerline,a clamping mechanism, provision for shimming for neck angle and cut a concave end on it to match your upper bout curve. Fit the neck with the heel face overhanging 1/2" and sand till you contact the rub collar |
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| Author: | Shaw [ Sat Aug 18, 2012 7:13 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Classical neck to body join with bolts/threaded inserts |
Filippo thanks for the tips...Mike |
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| Author: | MaxBishop [ Sun Aug 19, 2012 9:01 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Classical neck to body join with bolts/threaded inserts |
Many thanks for the info', Filippo and Jeff. I am curious about how you construct the relief angle for the neck, though. Also, I am having some trouble visualizing some of the things you have described. Perhaps after you're done with the current build you would consider putting together a tutorial. In any event, Thanks so much your help. Best wishes, Max |
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| Author: | escpg [ Sun Aug 19, 2012 10:53 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Classical neck to body join with bolts/threaded inserts |
That is very intersting. Filippo how do you compare the method you are using with the one shown in Cunmpiano's web page with barrels http://cumpiano.com/Home/Articles/Speci ... block.html to me it looks like the Cumpiano's method allows for some slight adjustment in up and down direction, which might be helpful when you glue the fingerboard for example. But I might be completely wrong of course. |
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| Author: | John A [ Mon Aug 20, 2012 8:51 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Classical neck to body join with bolts/threaded inserts |
Escpg, This is a butt joint that is being discussed here. The Cumpiano method is an M&T joint with hardware added in. I like this method, but the butt joint also seems acceptable and strong. Fillippo, Why not just build the neck block and the neck as normal butt joint - then when finishing before gluing on the fretboard - can you just floss the neck to customize the fit ? This was my plan. What's the need for the complexity and jig ? I must be missing something - Also in your C-block picture - it looks like there is only one hole for one bolt - is that a 1/4" bolt - or is one hole obscured ? |
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| Author: | MaxBishop [ Mon Aug 20, 2012 9:19 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Classical neck to body join with bolts/threaded inserts |
Thanks, Filippo, The pictures you provided really help! Do you floss to get the desired neck angle or is there some step in construction where you build that in? Thanks again, Max |
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| Author: | John A [ Mon Aug 20, 2012 9:51 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Classical neck to body join with bolts/threaded inserts |
yes that helps Fillippo ! Thanks |
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| Author: | MaxBishop [ Mon Aug 20, 2012 5:11 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Classical neck to body join with bolts/threaded inserts |
Thanks, Filippo. |
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