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| Building In Low Humidity http://luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=38325 |
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| Author: | bertoncini [ Wed Nov 21, 2012 4:24 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Building In Low Humidity |
I have recently moved from the Pacific NW to Phoenix area and am setting up shop. I have always tried to keep humidity 35-50% in my shop. Here the humidity hovers around 20% and I am not sure if I should try to control the whole shop area or just have an assembly area and try to keep around 40%. It is quite expensive to climate control a large area here. Also what about building in this low humidity if the instrument will stay here? Any help is appreciated, as I am trying to decide whether to continue building or not |
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| Author: | WendyW [ Wed Nov 21, 2012 8:49 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Building In Low Humidity |
I think it is easier to control humidity here in Phoenix than someplace more humid. I have a smaller room where I do assembly and store wood. When it's dry out it's easy to just run a humidifier. In the summer during monsoon when the humidity is up, the a/c in my shop takes care of it. The hardest part for me is when it rains in the winter and I have to rely on a dehumidifier. I have a concrete floor in the shop, which I would do something about if I wasn't too lazy to move everything out. If it is cold and rainy the humidifier runs all the time. Luckily it isn't like that very often. And if I feel like sanding or working outside the weather is usually nice. My machines are in a larger room that I don't control and I never have to worry about rust. The bad part is I try not to do too much machine work in the summertime except early in the morning before it gets too hot. There are other members of this forum here in AZ. Maybe they will answer as well. |
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| Author: | CharlieT [ Wed Nov 21, 2012 9:16 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Building In Low Humidity |
Hey Wendy - how does the concrete floor affect your humidity control? I have a concrete floor in my shop as well. I'm trying to implement some kind of humidity control, so I'm interested to know if/how the concrete influences thing. Thanks. |
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| Author: | John Arnold [ Wed Nov 21, 2012 9:48 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Building In Low Humidity |
No reason not to continue 'luthing'. Building a guitar too dry is much less hazardous than building it too wet. And if you feel that you do need to add humidity to the air, it is much easier (and cheaper) than removing it. |
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| Author: | bertoncini [ Wed Nov 21, 2012 10:02 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Building In Low Humidity |
Wendy...Thanks kinda thought of doing something similar to what you suggest. John...I kinda thought from what I have studied in the past that what you said to be true, if I built in 30% and sent to a damper climate the instrument would be much safer than building at say 60% and going to dry climate. |
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| Author: | DennisK [ Wed Nov 21, 2012 10:22 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Building In Low Humidity |
Yep, too dry is definitely better than too wet. One thing to consider is reducing your wood options to species that don't move much with humidity change, so they don't stress the glue joints or raise/lower the action too much when they poof up in the summer. Redwood and western redcedar are great top woods for that. Rosewood and mahogany back/sides are good, as well as padauk, wenge, pau ferro, and many others. Unfortunately most of our domestic hardwoods seem to move quite a lot according to http://www.wood-database.com/wood-identification/. Black cherry isn't too bad at 3.7%, and mesquite is extremely stable and ought to be available around there. And avoid ebony fingerboards... pretty much the movingest wood around, and will likely backbow when brought into a moist climate from there. African blackwood is a good substitute. |
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| Author: | bertoncini [ Wed Nov 21, 2012 11:09 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Building In Low Humidity |
Dennis Thanks...I had not considered that aspect |
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| Author: | Clinchriver [ Thu Nov 22, 2012 7:35 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Building In Low Humidity |
CharlieT wrote: Hey Wendy - how does the concrete floor affect your humidity control? I have a concrete floor in my shop as well. I'm trying to implement some kind of humidity control, so I'm interested to know if/how the concrete influences thing. Thanks. Have you ever spilled anything on an un-sealed concrete floor.........notice how fast the liquid soaks in? Concrete is not a barrier to moisture. A good two part epoxy paint can help. |
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| Author: | CharlieT [ Thu Nov 22, 2012 12:20 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Building In Low Humidity |
Clinchriver wrote: Have you ever spilled anything on an un-sealed concrete floor.........notice how fast the liquid soaks in? Concrete is not a barrier to moisture. A good two part epoxy paint can help. That makes sense. Thank you. |
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| Author: | WendyW [ Thu Nov 22, 2012 3:16 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Building In Low Humidity |
Since the concrete floor is not sealed it allows humidity into the shop. Sometime when I have the time and energy I will epoxy paint it. It has only been a problem when it rains in the winter. In the summer when it rains the a/c takes care of any humidity. Too well actually, and then I have to run a humidifier with the A/C. I think wherever you live it is a balancing act. I wouldn't worry about wood species. It's not that difficult to control your shop humidity here. I keep my shop at 40%. Summertime is more expensive because of the a/c, but I would be running that anyway. I just leave it at 90 degrees when I'm not working and cool it down further when I'm working in there. I may build a guitar for myself sometime and do the assembly in the uncontrolled area of the shop so it can live here without humidification. The thing I would be more worried about is how to store your guitars that you live with and keep them humidified. If you don't they will probably crack pretty fast. I wish I could come up with a better way than individual cases, but I don't have room for a guitar cabinet. It is tedious to have to fill all the guitar humidifiers, and no matter what style I've tried, they need to be filled every few days. So far the 1 that lasts the longest is the Oasis Plus. |
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| Author: | bertoncini [ Thu Nov 22, 2012 3:46 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Building In Low Humidity |
Wendy Does too much humidity actually ever happen here(I haven't been here for Winter yet). I have determined where I am going to do assembly and will control the environment there. It is actually in the same climate as the house...so only small adjustments will be necessary. I just needed t quit worrying and get at it. I knew what worked where I was and was a bit afraid to get started. Where are you located? I am in Sun City West |
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| Author: | CharlieT [ Thu Nov 22, 2012 4:28 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Building In Low Humidity |
Thanks for the info, Wendy. I live in Utah where it is similarly dry - it's really a desert here but we have mountains that collect and store water for us. The trees and green lawns make it look less desert like but the air is typically very dry, albeit much cooler than AZ for most of the year. Anyway, I appreciate the info on concrete. My shop actually has two concrete walls in addition to the floor. It will be a while before I'm in a position to, but at some point I will do as you suggested and seal them with an epoxy barrier. |
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| Author: | WendyW [ Thu Nov 22, 2012 5:20 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Building In Low Humidity |
In general the humidity is higher during monsoons in the summer, but occasionally we might have a wet winter. Nothing like the NW though. I do sometimes run a dehumidifier, but not too often. Times they are a changin though. This was a very wet summer in my opinion, mosquitos and all. Like I said, A/C seems to take care of it. But just like elsewhere I would have a/c, heat, humidifier, and dehumidifier available. Get a good size humidifier. My controlled area is just about 9x12 and well insulated, other than the concrete floor, so I can get by with a couple gallon capacity. Maybe Beth in Tucson will chime in, I think she just built a new shop. |
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| Author: | WendyW [ Fri Nov 23, 2012 7:34 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Building In Low Humidity |
Thanks Filippo, I think I'll lower it then. Today the humidity level outside is 13% so I'll just open the door for a while tomorrow until I'm in the low 30s and see if I can keep it there. |
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| Author: | bertoncini [ Fri Nov 23, 2012 9:40 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Building In Low Humidity |
Ok...thanks for all the suggestions...pretty much confirmed what I knew, but was just afraid to get started. With all the help I went for it today and got a whole day in getting some bracestock and neck blanks roughed out. Have an area that I can use as assembly area...just need to set up Thanks again Dave |
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