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 Post subject: Re: Brave New Uke
PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 5:38 pm 
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Amazing! Very elegant, Todd.


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 Post subject: Re: Brave New Uke
PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 9:33 pm 
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Thanks, Beth!

Todd Rose wrote:
There is virtually no stress on the top, because the strings pass through the bridge without putting any significant torque or downpressure on it. Look at the photo taken from straight out to the side to see what I mean.


One thing that's probably not apparent in the photos is that the holes in the rear section of the bridge are drilled at an angle, downward from the back toward the front, so that the strings bear down on the saddle, but then come back out the back of the bridge at the same height they come in over the saddle. Get that? That's how there's no torque on the bridge. That crucial geometry is also the real reason why I made the neck angle adjustable -- so the action can be dialed in without changing the saddle height.

There is a very slight downpressure on the bridge, since the strings don't continue back to the tuners in exactly the same plane as the vibrating length, but it is negligible.

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 Post subject: Re: Brave New Uke
PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 10:49 pm 
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Way cool!!!!!!!
[:Y:] [:Y:] [:Y:]
What's the headpiece made of,
and how do the strings anchor there?


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 Post subject: Re: Brave New Uke
PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 11:37 pm 
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Todd, good to see post. That little uke is pretty cool. I'd be interested in hearing more about your bridge design, have you tried it on a guitar?
Take care,
Jim

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 Post subject: Re: Brave New Uke
PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 11:46 pm 
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Todd,
Congrats on such an awesome uke. Love the design and everything about it. So unique and modern. So how much will it cost me to get one?
Tracy

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 Post subject: Re: Brave New Uke
PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 1:03 am 
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Todd:
You have suceeded at solving several problems that have stopped me from building something similar but different. My problem is building a headless ukulele that will easily fit in the overhead bin on an airplane for my annual pilgrimage to ukulele country. I will have to borrow your tuner mounting system as soon as I get back home.

Aloha

Bob :ugeek:


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 Post subject: Re: Brave New Uke
PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 1:05 am 
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Todd Rose wrote:
A little more info for ya...

The soundboard is very thin, and there are no braces. There is virtually no stress on the top, because the strings pass through the bridge without putting any significant torque or downpressure on it. Look at the photo taken from straight out to the side to see what I mean. These aspects of the design are really the crux of the matter, inasmuch as the sound of the instrument is concerned.

Did you have to pay a patent fee to use that design? I was under the impression that Rick Toone had exclusive rights to the whole concept of low-downforce bridges.

I'm not a fan of the look (reminds me of most architecture these days... purely functional, with no personality), but I do look forward to hearing any recordings you can make :)


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 Post subject: Re: Brave New Uke
PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 5:46 am 
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alan stassforth wrote:
Way cool!!!!!!!
[:Y:] [:Y:] [:Y:]
What's the headpiece made of,
and how do the strings anchor there?


Thanks, Alan! Beyond the zero fret is just a piece of holly. The strings are threaded through and their ends are knotted. Does that answer your question?

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 Post subject: Re: Brave New Uke
PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 6:15 am 
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Jim Watts wrote:
Todd, good to see post. That little uke is pretty cool. I'd be interested in hearing more about your bridge design, have you tried it on a guitar?
Take care,
Jim


Hi, Jim. Thanks. If you have any questions about the bridge, fire away. This is the first instrument I've done this on, though the ideas have been simmering on my back burner for more than a dozen years. I had an intuitive/theoretical sense of what these concepts might do for the sound of a small, high-pitched, nylon string instrument, so, when I got motivated to design and build a uke, which I wanted to have a distinctive, nontraditional sound, along the lines of what I was imagining I might get with this type of bridge and soundboard, I decided it was time to flesh out the ideas and put them to use. I believe this design will work well for the family of instruments I'm planning to make with it (ukes, mandos, octave guitars [standard guitar tuning, up an octave], and an innovative 5-string banjo I have sketched out in my head). I don't know how well it would work for a full-size guitar, especially a steel string guitar. I can't quite conjure an audio image of that in my head. I can imagine it might work well for an acoustic bass of some sort, though.

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Last edited by Todd Rose on Thu Jan 17, 2013 7:04 am, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Brave New Uke
PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 6:46 am 
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LuthierSupplier wrote:
Todd,
Congrats on such an awesome uke. Love the design and everything about it. So unique and modern. So how much will it cost me to get one?
Tracy


Thank you, Tracy. Much appreciated.

Part of my concept for these instruments is that they be affordable for "everyday" people (provided they have some understanding of and appreciation for quality handmade instruments, i.e. not the people who are looking for "cheap") -- much more affordable than my guitars, and more affordable than most of the other fine handmade ukes I see. They can't be "cheap", because that wouldn't do them justice, and, moreover, I have a family to support, and, though there is a simplicity to the design and they won't be encrusted with pearl, they will still be fine handmade instruments that I will make with care and attention to detail, so there's a limit to how fast I'll be able to make them. I'm not sure yet exactly what that limit will be after I've worked out a system, but I am aiming to price them at or under $1000. If you are seriously interested, I'd be delighted to discuss it with you further.

BTW, I don't plan to make more with holly and ebony like this one, unless somebody BEGS me to. First, holly is pretty soft, and the top will quickly get scratched up unless I put on a pickguard, or maybe if it had a tough polyester finish. Second, in the final sanding and prep for varnishing, it was a time-consuming pain in the butt to keep the holly clean of staining from the ebony dust. Not something I really want to do again. Various wood option are possible, but at this point I am planning to have curly hard maple (top, back, neck, tailstock) and Honduras rosewood (FB, bridge, armrest), with a brown stain to match the rosewood on the rim, be the standard. That will be very handsome and striking. Plus, happy as I am with the way this instrument sounds, I have a hunch it will sound even better with maple.

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Last edited by Todd Rose on Thu Jan 17, 2013 7:08 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Brave New Uke
PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 6:51 am 
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unkabob wrote:
Todd:
You have suceeded at solving several problems that have stopped me from building something similar but different. My problem is building a headless ukulele that will easily fit in the overhead bin on an airplane for my annual pilgrimage to ukulele country. I will have to borrow your tuner mounting system as soon as I get back home.

Aloha

Bob :ugeek:


Thanks, Bob. Borrow away. The armrest is necessary for comfort; the tuner posts would not feel good without it. My armrest is mounted on steel rods, which insert snugly into holes in the tailstock and are held in place by rare earth magnets. The magnets are superglued into counterbored holes from below. You can see the magnets in a couple of the underside photos.

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Last edited by Todd Rose on Thu Jan 17, 2013 7:10 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Brave New Uke
PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 6:57 am 
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DennisK wrote:
Did you have to pay a patent fee to use that design? I was under the impression that Rick Toone had exclusive rights to the whole concept of low-downforce bridges.


I had not heard of Rick Toone. I just googled him and checked out his web site. Very creative work. I'm not going to look too closely, though. I wouldn't want to get any ideas from someone so into patents. :D

DennisK wrote:
I'm not a fan of the look (reminds me of most architecture these days... purely functional, with no personality), but I do look forward to hearing any recordings you can make :)


pfft :D I think this design is bursting with personality. To each their own.

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 Post subject: Re: Brave New Uke
PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 7:21 am 
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Todd Rose wrote:
I had not heard of Rick Toone. I just googled him and checked out his web site. Very creative work. I'm not going to look too closely, though. I wouldn't want to get any ideas from someone so into patents. :D

Sorry to have destroyed your innocence :lol: I think he's mainly just trying to keep the idea away from the big factories, so hopefully he won't come after you... but it still irritates me enough that I'm just sticking with the traditional forms.

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pfft :D I think this design is bursting with personality. To each their own.

You know, the more I look at it...
Attachment:
UkeFace.jpg

I think you should name the model after one of the Hawaiian kings :mrgreen:


You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.


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 Post subject: Re: Brave New Uke
PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 7:56 am 
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I like it a lot (but then I am an architect, who thinks modern architecture should be both functional and beautiful, not unlike the best guitars, or ukes for that matter...)

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 Post subject: Re: Brave New Uke
PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 11:04 am 
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Wow! Awesome work, Todd! Your innovative design is inspiring and it's wonderful to see your brave new uke debuting here on the OLF. Thanks for sharing this with us!

You are a master builder and I a mere hobbyist, so I hesitate to question your decisions, but my eye really wants to see something above the nut. I'm sure you've explored this thoroughly and ruled it out, but I can't help but wonder how a small shape complimenting the roundness of the body or the arch of the peghead might look. In keeping with your excellent form/function aesthetic, perhaps it could incorporate the strap button. Just the musings of a curious mind. :-)

As for a name, I'll throw out ho'okoa, which I think means "brave." It would certainly be appropriate and the nice round "O" shapes offer a playful echo to your wonderful design.

Bravo!! [clap]

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 Post subject: Re: Brave New Uke
PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 3:45 pm 
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DennisK wrote:
You know, the more I look at it...
Attachment:
UkeFace.jpg

I think you should name the model after one of the Hawaiian kings :mrgreen:


:lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Brave New Uke
PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 3:46 pm 
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Thanks, Arnt!

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 Post subject: Re: Brave New Uke
PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 3:58 pm 
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George L wrote:
Wow! Awesome work, Todd! Your innovative design is inspiring and it's wonderful to see your brave new uke debuting here on the OLF. Thanks for sharing this with us!


Thanks, George!

George L wrote:
my eye really wants to see something above the nut.


Ah, but there is no nut! :D
Seriously, though, I appreciate your feedback.
It is worth noting that, for a couple of chords that involve crowded fingerings in the first couple of frets, I have found that it is actually very helpful to be able to bring the palm of the left hand right around the end of the neck. Looks funny with respect to conventional hand position, but it works!

George L wrote:
As for a name, I'll throw out ho'okoa, which I think means "brave." It would certainly be appropriate and the nice round "O" shapes offer a playful echo to your wonderful design.


Cool idea. Thanks!

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 Post subject: Re: Brave New Uke
PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 9:21 pm 
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Todd Rose wrote:
Thanks, Beth!

Todd Rose wrote:
There is virtually no stress on the top, because the strings pass through the bridge without putting any significant torque or downpressure on it. Look at the photo taken from straight out to the side to see what I mean.


One thing that's probably not apparent in the photos is that the holes in the rear section of the bridge are drilled at an angle, downward from the back toward the front, so that the strings bear down on the saddle, but then come back out the back of the bridge at the same height they come in over the saddle. Get that? That's how there's no torque on the bridge. That crucial geometry is also the real reason why I made the neck angle adjustable -- so the action can be dialed in without changing the saddle height.

There is a very slight downpressure on the bridge, since the strings don't continue back to the tuners in exactly the same plane as the vibrating length, but it is negligible.


Holy cow, that's cool. I don't really know why it's cool but it is. I know, it's kind of like the principal of the perpetual motion machine. Whats going on here? How can we derive energy from a string that has no force on the top? :D

But seriously, what does this delicate touch design do in theory?


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 Post subject: Re: Brave New Uke
PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 10:38 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: Brave New Uke
PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2013 10:48 am 
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jfmckenna wrote:

Holy cow, that's cool. I don't really know why it's cool but it is. I know, it's kind of like the principal of the perpetual motion machine. Whats going on here? How can we derive energy from a string that has no force on the top? :D

But seriously, what does this delicate touch design do in theory?


How can we derive energy from a string that has no force on the top? The short answer is really the whole answer: the strings are coupled to the top via the bridge. It doesn't require force to achieve this coupling, just a means of making a positive contact between the strings and the bridge.

The theory of having no (or virtually no) static force or stress on the top... Hmmm... well...

Picture a thin plate mounted on a rim, no strings or anything attached. Now, imagine you have a magic wand that "injects" vibrational energy into that plate. First, you do this by simply touching the wand to the plate, noting that it requires almost no force to keep the wand in solid contact. The wand itself is flexible enough that, with such a light touch, it doesn't put any significant restrictive force on the plate as it is held in contact with it; with the wand coupled to it, the plate vibrates freely (it is fixed at the edges, but it is otherwise free). This is analogous to how an instrument like this works.

Second, you do this again, but this time you push down hard with the wand, hard enough that the plate flexes downward under the force and you have a felt sense that the plate is clearly being somewhat restricted in it's vibration (in some modes of vibration, at any rate). This is analogous to what's happening with a floating bridge, like on an archtop guitar.

Finally, you devise some means of fastening the end of the wand to the plate and you use it as a lever to crank on the plate, so that one side of the plate is forced downward and the other side is forced upward, as the vibrations flow into it from the wand. As you crank on the plate, you can feel the force you're using and the resistance of the plate to being deformed in this way, and, again, you have a felt sense of how this restricts the ability of the plate to move freely in vibration. This is analogous to what's happening with a fixed bridge instrument, like a typical steel string or classical guitar.

It's not that any one of these systems works better than the others, but, to me, it is intuitively obvious that they work differently. I think we can use our imaginations to get some sense of how the resulting sound will be affected by these three different systems (e.g. pushing down hard near the center of the plate surely puts some restriction on 1st mode oscillation; logic would suggest that this is part of why archtop guitars have such poor bass response), but, ultimately, the proof is in the pudding.

One of the things I wanted to do with this instrument design, since I was envisioning a somewhat banjo-like instrument in both appearance and sound, was to make the top very thin and braceless. This aspect of the design goes hand-in-hand with option one (the no-stress top model).

Clear as mud?

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 Post subject: Re: Brave New Uke
PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2013 10:58 am 
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Jason Rodgers wrote:
http://smoothtalkerguitars.com/


Cool! I know I've seen a picture of one of those before... maybe even read about them at some point... in an issue of American Lutherie, maybe? Thanks for bringing this guy's work back into my consciousness. I hope I have a chance to get one of those instruments in my hands sometime. Clearly, there are a lot of parallels between his designs and what I'm doing here.

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 Post subject: Re: Brave New Uke
PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2013 11:15 am 
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Dang.

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 Post subject: Re: Brave New Uke
PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2013 11:49 am 
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Cool design, Todd. The first thing that came to mind when I saw your uke was Felix the Cat! Wonderful :) !

Alex

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 Post subject: Re: Brave New Uke
PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2013 11:51 am 
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Todd, that was a great explanation. Not sure the acoustic engineers would put it that way, but it worked for me!


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