Thanks for the reminder of why I don't follow, or post, to that forum;
Way too much self-promotion and/or agendas....
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| Soundport upcharge..., http://luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=38992 |
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| Author: | meddlingfool [ Thu Jan 17, 2013 11:13 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Soundport upcharge..., |
What do you upcharge for that, and how long does it take to do? And, does it actually make a guitar any louder? I've been asked to do one for a fellow deaf in one ear. I suggested a guitar larger than a Parlour but he was adamant. |
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| Author: | Tony_in_NYC [ Thu Jan 17, 2013 11:40 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Soundport upcharge..., |
They definitely let the player hear the guitar better. There is a discussion going on about them at the AGF right now.here is a link: http://www.acousticguitarforum.com/foru ... p?t=279982 Posted using something. |
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| Author: | grumpy [ Fri Jan 18, 2013 12:57 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Soundport upcharge..., |
Thanks for the reminder of why I don't follow, or post, to that forum; Way too much self-promotion and/or agendas....
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| Author: | James Orr [ Fri Jan 18, 2013 12:59 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Soundport upcharge..., |
grumpy wrote: Thanks for the reminder of why I don't follow, or post, to that forum; Way too much self-promotion and/or agendas.... So we won't see a build thread anytime soon? |
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| Author: | meddlingfool [ Fri Jan 18, 2013 2:50 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Soundport upcharge..., |
Tony, I know you'll understand that I'm going to have to sacrifice you for a Soundport now. Please make your arrangements and be at the shop no later than 9:00 Monday. Also, I'll need instructions and I still don't know how much to charge. So bring a price list too. Thanks |
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| Author: | Fred Tellier [ Fri Jan 18, 2013 9:21 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Soundport upcharge..., |
A small oval shaped port takes less than 1 hour of my time to do including adding a doubler to the inside to prevent cracking. I use a maple and dyed black veneers for the doubler so the material cost is very low. So figure what you time is worth and charge accordingly. Fred |
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| Author: | grumpy [ Fri Jan 18, 2013 11:11 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Soundport upcharge..., |
Actually, there's more to consider than just the hands-on time needed to cut and shape the port. You need to also consider, and factor-in, the risk factor of cutting into a perfectly good guitar rib. Slight tearouts/chipping are easy and simple to clean up, but there IS a real, though minimal, possibility of a major tearout/chip, or other mishap, that could cost you endless hours to repair, or even replacement of the entire rib, or soundbox. |
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| Author: | Tony_in_NYC [ Fri Jan 18, 2013 11:48 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Soundport upcharge..., |
grumpy wrote: Thanks for the reminder of why I don't follow, or post, to that forum; Way too much self-promotion and/or agendas.... I live to serve.  I don't think the OP believed me when I said the port was for a sacrifice. |
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| Author: | Tony_in_NYC [ Fri Jan 18, 2013 11:49 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Soundport upcharge..., |
meddlingfool wrote: Tony, I know you'll understand that I'm going to have to sacrifice you for a Soundport now. Please make your arrangements and be at the shop no later than 9:00 Monday. Also, I'll need instructions and I still don't know how much to charge. So bring a price list too. Thanks Dude...you only need a small animal, or even a goldfish. But it must be a blood sacrifice. I wont fit in your port, so you are SOL. But charging $150 for a port seems fair. More money for less wood. Makes sense, right? |
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| Author: | arie [ Fri Jan 18, 2013 11:59 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Soundport upcharge..., |
grumpy wrote: Actually, there's more to consider than just the hands-on time needed to cut and shape the port. You need to also consider, and factor-in, the risk factor of cutting into a perfectly good guitar rib. Slight tearouts/chipping are easy and simple to clean up, but there IS a real, though minimal, possibility of a major tearout/chip, or other mishap, that could cost you endless hours to repair, or even replacement of the entire rib, or soundbox. in dollars and cents just how much is your risk factor? the way i see it, don't charge someone for your learning curve -just don't screw up. i've ported before, and imo you have to work really hard to screw one up. tuning one properly takes a bit of time though so charge for that. |
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| Author: | Michael.N. [ Fri Jan 18, 2013 12:10 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Soundport upcharge..., |
Everyone screws up arie. If Ford and Toyota screw up (with all their available resources and finance) you can be sure that little lone Guitar builder will do it as well. It's just a matter of how much and how often. If you don't factor that into your price then I guess you aren't really acting as a professional. |
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| Author: | ZekeM [ Fri Jan 18, 2013 12:18 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Soundport upcharge..., |
I'm with arie. I don't see why you should pass the cost of your mistakes to the consumer. When I figure prices for parts my customers I don't charge extra for possible scrap parts. Why would you do that? I eat my own mistakes and would never ask a customer to eat it for me. |
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| Author: | Michael Lloyd [ Fri Jan 18, 2013 12:31 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Soundport upcharge..., |
I take it that this is a new build, quote - "I suggested a guitar larger than a Parlour" so price it as an additional feature. Maybe somewhere between $200-$300. Does it make the guitar louder? No. You're just redirecting some sound. Before you decide on where to install the sound port check with the customer to ensure you know which ear has the earing issue. 
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| Author: | Kent Chasson [ Fri Jan 18, 2013 12:56 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Soundport upcharge..., |
I don't charge for my standard port. I put side braces on all my guitars placed near the edges of where a port would go. This allows the decision to be put off until just before finish or even for a pretty easy retrofit after finish. It adds maybe 30 minutes and is one of the lowest risk operations there is and customers really appreciate not being nickeled and dimed, especially if there are already a few add ons. |
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| Author: | arie [ Fri Jan 18, 2013 1:16 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Soundport upcharge..., |
Michael.N. wrote: Everyone screws up arie. If Ford and Toyota screw up (with all their available resources and finance) you can be sure that little lone Guitar builder will do it as well. It's just a matter of how much and how often. If you don't factor that into your price then I guess you aren't really acting as a professional. true, everybody makes mistakes. but what you are really saying to your client when you disclose and charge upfront for a "possible" mistake is that you aren't competent enough to handle the work. enough of this and soon your customer base will start losing confidence in your abilities. the professional attitude comes from surety of the fact that yes you can do the job, and yes mistakes happen, but it is up to me to make it right with the client. imo if it is a retrofit port then change for labor and materials. pad a little bit for "contingencies" but if it is a new build then don't change. don't tell the customer "i'll have to charge your more because i might f up". |
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| Author: | Michael.N. [ Fri Jan 18, 2013 1:36 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Soundport upcharge..., |
No, I doubt that you would quite phrase it as such to a customer. Make no mistake (!!!) though, you have to factor in mishaps and wastage of materials. If you don't, you are simply acting like an amateur. No successful business model in the world would do any different. I've yet to hear Ford or Toyota state that their selling price includes a cost to cover waste and mishaps. That doesn't mean to say that they don't factor it in though. There is a very good reason why they pay the bean counters. |
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| Author: | meddlingfool [ Fri Jan 18, 2013 2:04 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Soundport upcharge..., |
Hey now, at what point did my competence get called into question? Tony, it doesn't have to be all of you then, so just send me whatever bits of you that you use the least.... |
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| Author: | arie [ Fri Jan 18, 2013 2:22 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Soundport upcharge..., |
meddlingfool wrote: Hey now, at what point did my competence get called into question? nowhere i know of |
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| Author: | arie [ Fri Jan 18, 2013 2:35 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Soundport upcharge..., |
i like your acoustic water turtle btw... ![[:Y:]](./images/smilies/smiley20.gif "Thumbs Up")
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| Author: | meddlingfool [ Fri Jan 18, 2013 3:27 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Soundport upcharge..., |
Methinks I work too cheap. I said 75$. I'll see how long it takes and adjust accordingly.... |
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| Author: | Rod True [ Fri Jan 18, 2013 4:20 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Soundport upcharge..., |
Looking on some builders websites, I see the range is $200-$300 for a basic sound port.... Makes $400 for a cutaway look like a steal 
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| Author: | meddlingfool [ Fri Jan 18, 2013 6:02 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Soundport upcharge..., |
Well, those little extras are where the profit is supposed to come from... Next one 100$ 
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| Author: | grumpy [ Fri Jan 18, 2013 6:30 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Soundport upcharge..., |
Who said anything about mistakes? I'm talking about tearouts and chipouts, which, if you build enough objects with wood, WILL happen. Wood is wood, and wood has a way of humbling everyone at some point. As was already mentioned, to think otherwise and ignore reality makes you the fool. |
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| Author: | Andy Birko [ Fri Jan 18, 2013 6:42 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Soundport upcharge..., |
grumpy wrote: As was already mentioned, to think otherwise and ignore reality makes you the fool. Gotta agree with this one. If you don't factor in spoilage in your "shop rate", you're going to be living on the edge. May not be a big deal for the hobbyist with a day job but for a pro, at the end of the day you have to make a profit. |
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| Author: | LaurieW [ Fri Jan 18, 2013 8:39 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Soundport upcharge..., |
meddlingfool wrote: Methinks I work too cheap. I said 75$. I'll see how long it takes and adjust accordingly.... Taylor charges $200 (retail) for a bone nut and saddle on their BTO models, which costs $9, I think your soundport should run a couple hundred bucks.....but I haven't tried one yet.....I might buy a whole guitar if that's all you charge 
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