Official Luthiers Forum! :: View topic - Taylor with concave top, how is it possible?

It was made in 1994. Hard to say. This was a period of ramp-up of production at Taylor, and several guitar people I know felt that the guitars were less consistent during this time. One former employee said that during this period they used a stroke sander on the tops after the box was closed which resulted in weaker than intended tops. Taylor did see a rise in their warranty repairs during this period and they started making their guitars tighter. Every manufacturer has occasional problems, and Taylor is no different. They just make fewer problem guitars than many.

That being said, how long did the guitar sit with the broken braces before it was brought in for repair? If it was a while, it might have been long enough for the top to distort.

Author:	Tai Fu [ Mon Jan 21, 2013 2:06 am ]
Post subject:	Taylor with concave top, how is it possible?
I am working on my pastor's Taylor 420. The original problem was a crack at the top, and loose finger braces were discovered beneath the crack (he said it kept getting worse). When I placed a straight edge over the top I noticed the entire top is concave like that video on Taylor's website that shows what happens to guitars that was exposed to low humidity. The problem is, there is absolutely NO way anything can get exposed to that low of a humidity (I am talking low 20's here) in Taiwan, the humidity is never below 50% in Taiwan! So the question is, assuming the owner just stored his guitar in his case how is it possible the soundboard became so concave?

Author:	nyazzip [ Mon Jan 21, 2013 2:47 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Taylor with concave top, how is it possible?
broken brace(s)

Author:	Tai Fu [ Mon Jan 21, 2013 2:52 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Taylor with concave top, how is it possible?
nyazzip wrote: broken brace(s) I've checked it, and every other braces appears intact except for those two finger braces (they have been glued together)

Author:	Mattia Valente [ Mon Jan 21, 2013 5:11 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Taylor with concave top, how is it possible?
No airconditioning in Taiwan?

Author:	Tai Fu [ Mon Jan 21, 2013 5:14 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Taylor with concave top, how is it possible?
Mattia Valente wrote: No airconditioning in Taiwan? It's not really hot enough at the moment to use it. Do you think this is caused by too much humidity? I don't know how my pastor stored it, he could have left it in a non air conditioned environment all the time with extreme humidity.

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Author:	jfmckenna [ Mon Jan 21, 2013 9:22 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Taylor with concave top, how is it possible?
Too much humidity is usually the opposite but I suppose it's possible that since those finger braces are broken the string tension coupled with the top plate expanding due to high humidity could cause that. It's possible that the expansion of the top will move in the direction of least resistance, in this case inward where the loose bracing is. That's a wild guess though.

Author:	DennisK [ Mon Jan 21, 2013 9:53 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Taylor with concave top, how is it possible?
Any idea how the braces came loose in the first place? And what kind of glue does Taylor use on their bracing? Maybe it could have been left somewhere hot in the summer and had things creep, but took a while to really become noticeable. Check behind other braces for glue prints that would indicate them sliding around. Although if that is the case, I don't know any way to fix it short of retopping... one of the reasons I use hide glue for bracing.

Author:	Tai Fu [ Mon Jan 21, 2013 10:35 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Taylor with concave top, how is it possible?
The brace came off is because he said he would drum on the soundboard, and he hit a little too hard. I did not find any evidence of anything sliding around; everything is where they should be.

Author:	Pmaj7 [ Mon Jan 21, 2013 2:52 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Taylor with concave top, how is it possible?
Is he pentacostal? Ruling out Holy Spirit fire, I say A/C is the culprit. How old is it? Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk 2

Author:	Darryl Young [ Mon Jan 21, 2013 3:02 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Taylor with concave top, how is it possible?
When did it happen? I would think heat is more likely as it dries out the air. Maybe it was stored on a stand over a floor vent? Is your pastor a local guy? Wondering if the guitar may have come from another area where it was indeed stored in low humidity caused by the heat in the winter. How old is the guitar and was the pastor the original owner? Possibly there is unknown history.

Author:	Dave Fifield [ Mon Jan 21, 2013 3:43 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Taylor with concave top, how is it possible?
Agreed with Darryl. Did he leave it propped up, back against a hot wall (with sunshine on it) in a room with an A/C. Dave F.

Author:	Tai Fu [ Mon Jan 21, 2013 7:56 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Taylor with concave top, how is it possible?
Weird thing is, behind the bridge the soundboard has its normal curvature but its not even. It looked as though a crack is ready to form at the seam and the binding appears to have moved a bit (the finish cracked a bit around the tail on the binding), however I cannot find any evidence of glue failure. When I looked at it with my inspection error everything looks normal except for the 2 finger braces I mentioned. The dip happens in front of the bridge, there's 2 hairline cracks behind the bridge, not sure if it's finish or wood. It seems he lets his kid play his guitar sometimes and I told him he should get a cheap guitar for that purpose... there's no telling what the kid did to it. I think this particular model is discontinued.

Author:	dberkowitz [ Tue Jan 22, 2013 8:30 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Taylor with concave top, how is it possible?
When was it made, what's it's serial number. That could provide some clues. Taylor's bracing/manufacturing methods have changed several times over the past 25 years.

Author:	Tai Fu [ Tue Jan 22, 2013 11:57 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Taylor with concave top, how is it possible?
I do not know the year (nothing indicates the year), serial number is 940301004. Label is glued on the neck block, says "Robert Taylor" at the bottom of the label and says it was made in California.

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Author:	Tai Fu [ Wed Jan 23, 2013 8:40 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Taylor with concave top, how is it possible?
Todd Stock wrote: It got cooked. Build with AR/PVA, string, and then roast for a few hours...lots of glue creep and other bad things happened. Should be a 1994 model. All I can do for him is fix the crack and loose brace... I don't think he would pay for a retop as he'd be able to buy another new Taylor for the price of a retop. I have to say the top is kinda beat up in any case, if it got cooked so much then the right thing to do would be remove the top, remove all braces, and reglue them correctly.

Author:	dberkowitz [ Thu Jan 24, 2013 11:55 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Taylor with concave top, how is it possible?
It was made in 1994. Hard to say. This was a period of ramp-up of production at Taylor, and several guitar people I know felt that the guitars were less consistent during this time. One former employee said that during this period they used a stroke sander on the tops after the box was closed which resulted in weaker than intended tops. Taylor did see a rise in their warranty repairs during this period and they started making their guitars tighter. Every manufacturer has occasional problems, and Taylor is no different. They just make fewer problem guitars than many. That being said, how long did the guitar sit with the broken braces before it was brought in for repair? If it was a while, it might have been long enough for the top to distort.

Author:	Tai Fu [ Thu Jan 24, 2013 12:00 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Taylor with concave top, how is it possible?
dberkowitz wrote: It was made in 1994. Hard to say. This was a period of ramp-up of production at Taylor, and several guitar people I know felt that the guitars were less consistent during this time. One former employee said that during this period they used a stroke sander on the tops after the box was closed which resulted in weaker than intended tops. Taylor did see a rise in their warranty repairs during this period and they started making their guitars tighter. Every manufacturer has occasional problems, and Taylor is no different. They just make fewer problem guitars than many. That being said, how long did the guitar sit with the broken braces before it was brought in for repair? If it was a while, it might have been long enough for the top to distort. I would say at least a year... the crack was old enough for it to have dust caked into it, and I do not know when he cracked it before he came to me. He wasn't aware of the loose brace until I discovered it.