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| JAPANESE PLANES http://luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=39669 |
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| Author: | ernie [ Mon Mar 11, 2013 2:45 pm ] |
| Post subject: | JAPANESE PLANES |
Last year I bought 4 japanese planes I off e bay mainly for the blade and 3 from the japan woodworker.I also have some jap spoon bottom planes I bought abt 3years ago. I have found that there is quite a learning curve to using these planes .They are deceptively simple looking, but require a certain amt of fidddling/finessing to work properly. I have a long way to go in learning how to use these planes .Frankly I was somewhat intimidated by them .I have been using jap saws since 1987, but learning how to get the most out of these planes requires effort.I had bought toshio odate/s book on jap tools , but I just received a newish book on planes by scott wynn , that will hopefully take out some of the mystery. Your experiences ??? |
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| Author: | AnthonyE [ Mon Mar 11, 2013 4:37 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: JAPANESE PLANES |
I started getting into Japanese planes a couple years ago and purchased only 2 to see I liked them. They are both Tsunesaburo planes and are awesome. But I will agree in that they are completely different animals than the metal or wooden planes we are typically used to. There is really a big importance in setting the tool up initially as well as keeping the dai (plane body) maintained over different seasons of the year. I highly recommend you look at Jay Van Arsdale's Kanna dvd if you are interested in learning the in's and outs of a Japanese plane (kanna). He really does cover everything you need to know very well. Getting the blade to fit properly in the dai when you first get the plane is extremely important and is something you can mess up if you don't understand what needs to happen. My biggest trouble with the planes were the blades initial bevel angle. Typically these tools have been designed to be used on softwoods. Even the planes made with higher bed angles for hardwood use can come with a low blade bevel angle which may need to be changed. I originally was getting lots of small chipping on these blades when used on hardwoods like cherry and maple until I increased the bevel angle to 30deg+. This can be a significant amount of work on paper and stones as I do not want micro-bevels on my Japanese blades. Once all these intial items are taken care of I wouldn't be without my Japanese kannas. They put a surface on a piece of wood that is beyond anything I have ever seen. They really shine when used to finish plane softwood. They put this amazing polish on wood that really deserves to be left unfinished and felt. I highly recommend using and understanding these simple yet complicated tools. |
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| Author: | Tony_in_NYC [ Mon Mar 11, 2013 6:33 pm ] |
| Post subject: | JAPANESE PLANES |
I'm far from politically correct, but "Jap" is highly offensive to Japanese people. I don't own any Japanese planes. Just crappy, low budget American planes. |
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| Author: | ernie [ Mon Mar 11, 2013 8:33 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: JAPANESE PLANES |
Thanks anthony , for the feedback , Have seen the jay van arsdale youtube videos. I will check out the DVD. Did you grind down the bevel to 30 deg on a stone or grinder?? Sounds like you used the armstrong method?? Too bad the planes don/t come with a set of instructions.Did you get the planes from hida ,or tools in japan.Also which model?? .I believe tsunasaburo and others make many styles ?/ white or blue steel. . I/m trying to slowly learn to fit the blades, by using the instructions in the wynn book. Thanks ernie |
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| Author: | Carey [ Tue Mar 12, 2013 2:39 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: JAPANESE PLANES |
Solid setup info: http://www.ibiblio.org/japanwood/phpBB2 ... 2aac101cea A selection by a seriously skilled guy: http://www.ibiblio.org/japanwood/phpBB2 ... c488133619 |
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| Author: | Carey [ Tue Mar 12, 2013 2:48 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: JAPANESE PLANES |
http://www.daikudojo.org/Archive/robert_meadow/ |
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| Author: | AnthonyE [ Tue Mar 12, 2013 4:28 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: JAPANESE PLANES |
I use a Dentou Tsunesaburo which is super blue steel and a Watoh Tsunesaburo. Both planes come from a guy named Stu over a Tools From Japan. This is truly one of the best resources for Japanese tools that come from Japan. He is very helpful, knowledgable, a just a great guy to talk with. He also has Sigma Ceramic waterstones which I think are probably some of the best waterstones available right now. I did all the grinding by hand to re-establish the bevel angles. It took some time but was well worth the investment. |
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| Author: | ernie [ Tue Mar 12, 2013 8:36 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: JAPANESE PLANES |
Thanks carey for the links ,anthony for the exact names of the planes, and todd for the expalanation on abbreviations / colloquillisms. |
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| Author: | Carey [ Wed Mar 13, 2013 9:47 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: JAPANESE PLANES |
To Ernie: Setting up an inexpensive eBay plane is a good way to start, as there are details that don't become evident until you make a mistake. If you post a photo or two of a dai and blade we could suggest some starting points. I second the recommendation of Jay van Arsdale's 'Kanna' DVD; he's a good teacher and doesn't go too quickly. That said, there's more to it than you can put on a DVD or in a book, like building itself. To Anthony: How do you like the Watoh? That's the one of VAR White steel, isn't it? |
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| Author: | Carey [ Wed Mar 13, 2013 9:57 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: JAPANESE PLANES |
Some solid info on this site, and I've heard good things about the book on Shoji Making (re: kanna setup) by the same fellow: http://kskdesign.com.au/tools/tools/hand-planes.html#1 |
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| Author: | Kenji Okumura [ Wed Mar 13, 2013 10:45 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: JAPANESE PLANES |
My name is Kenji Okumura and I am a Japanese luthier living in London, UK. I couldn't believe my eyes when I saw "the term" for Japanese. Since English is not my first language, I double-checked "the term" and reconfirmed that it was disparaging and offensive. Those who use "the term" do not deserve to use Japanese tools. I don't know if the person use "the term" ignorantly or deliberately, but no one should use offensive words in this forum. Please do not forget that there are some Japanese luthiers in this forum. |
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| Author: | ernie [ Thu Mar 14, 2013 7:57 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: JAPANESE PLANES |
carey I got the el cheapo smooth plane from japan woodworker for abt $54. I/ve got it set up now to cut roughly, as it has a 2.5mm ?? opening , the other 2 planes are small 6in and 4,5in polishing planes with a 47deg block angle used for smoothing small areas of hdwd. Will check out the kanna vid by van arsdale. Thanks. |
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| Author: | ernie [ Thu Mar 14, 2013 9:48 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: JAPANESE PLANES |
Todd thanks again for enlightening us benighted souls, on the selective outrage that the word police seem to indulge in.Having painfully experienced 7 years of hell with one of these[ princesse/s] I know of what you say firsthand.I am older wiser, more enlightened in both pocketbook and mind , and will cheerfully go back to playing with my kanna.That is if my wife lets me 
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| Author: | Greg B [ Thu Mar 14, 2013 1:10 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: JAPANESE PLANES |
Tony_in_NYC wrote: I'm far from politically correct, but "Jap" is highly offensive to Japanese people. I don't own any Japanese planes. Just crappy, low budget American planes. Agree 100% |
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| Author: | AnthonyE [ Thu Mar 14, 2013 8:37 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: JAPANESE PLANES |
Kenji Okumura wrote: My name is Kenji Okumura and I am a Japanese luthier living in London, UK. I couldn't believe my eyes when I saw "the term" for Japanese. Since English is not my first language, I double-checked "the term" and reconfirmed that it was disparaging and offensive. Those who use "the term" do not deserve to use Japanese tools. I don't know if the person use "the term" ignorantly or deliberately, but no one should use offensive words in this forum. Please do not forget that there are some Japanese luthiers in this forum. Give him a break. he was surely not using the term in an offensive nature but just in abbreviation as you would in a txt. The word is offensive if used in a certain context. If you were to take the time to re-read the post you should be able to gather this. |
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| Author: | FishtownMike [ Fri Mar 15, 2013 12:12 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: JAPANESE PLANES |
I like that Kenji Okumura logged for only the 3rd time five years after his last post to lecture someone. Why would the Japanese be offended by the term Jap? What could have possibly have lead to this? If you have ever traveled to Japan you would be hard fetched to find any youngsters there that was aware that Japan was involved in WW2 and responsible for atrocious war crimes against many of their neighbors. They totally erased any trace of this fact from their history books. This denial is the reason for much of the tension between them and many neighboring Asian countries. |
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| Author: | AnthonyE [ Fri Mar 15, 2013 4:32 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: JAPANESE PLANES |
Quote: To Anthony: How do you like the Watoh? That's the one of VAR White steel, isn't it? This is def my favorite of the my Japanese planes. The edge that I can get on this blade is something beyond anything else that I own. It really does make my O1 blades seem like high speed steel blades in terms of how sharp they get off my water stones. I am now a huge fan of good quality white steel because of this plane. |
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| Author: | Kenji Okumura [ Fri Mar 15, 2013 7:21 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: JAPANESE PLANES |
There are a few things I would like to say, but I will keep my mouth shut because it is so difficult for me to discuss this matter in English. Also, we should not waste our precious time for this but should focus on making beautiful guitars. No matter what kind of backgroud we have, I would like to keep my friendship with fellow luthiers all over the world because we share what we love. It was very interesting for me to have this kind of discussion because it was my first time. By the way, I am very glad to know that Japanese tools are used in lutherie!! I hope everybody will have a prosperous future in making and repairing guitars. |
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| Author: | ernie [ Fri Mar 15, 2013 8:11 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: JAPANESE PLANES |
Am still on a learning curve with these planes, and have a ways to go .Thanks for the input on the watoh .I also made my own dai from o. orange abt 13in with a recycled handmade blade off e- bay.I use it for vy fine edge trimming and shooting on vy hdwd. Next stop, I e- mailed scott wynn (book on plane making) abt making a high angle jointer plane, and he suggested making my own from recycled e- bay planes which are always for sale, as even these jointer style planes are difficult to acquire in japan. So DIY is the way to go, I am also considering making a vy high angle 65 deg jointer, chinese or OZ style to plane vy hdwds. Scott suggests an old cast steel blade for these or an HSS from LV. Thanks everyone, the forum is not really a venue for us discussing our political views. So let us put our principles first and egos/personalities second so that others who are reading don/t get sidetracked by the politics. |
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| Author: | murrmac [ Sun Mar 24, 2013 11:45 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: JAPANESE PLANES |
memo to self: remember to get all huffy next time anybody uses the term "Brit" ... |
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| Author: | ernie [ Sun Mar 24, 2013 3:53 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: JAPANESE PLANES |
Does that apply to scotland, wales , and n.ireland too ? or do they get special monikers  .Don/t know why But I/m already offended, or looking to offend somebody somewhere, whatever? 
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| Author: | Darrel Friesen [ Sun Mar 24, 2013 3:58 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: JAPANESE PLANES |
We do want to stay away from Teuchters and Sasanachs as well. 
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| Author: | Colin North [ Sun Mar 24, 2013 5:18 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: JAPANESE PLANES |
Laddies an 'quines an'a'? |
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| Author: | Carey [ Sun Mar 24, 2013 6:16 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: JAPANESE PLANES |
Thanks for that info on the Watoh kanna. Sounds like an excellent tool, and good WS kanna are not so easy to find. AnthonyE wrote: Quote: To Anthony: How do you like the Watoh? That's the one of VAR White steel, isn't it? This is def my favorite of the my Japanese planes. The edge that I can get on this blade is something beyond anything else that I own. It really does make my O1 blades seem like high speed steel blades in terms of how sharp they get off my water stones. I am now a huge fan of good quality white steel because of this plane. |
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| Author: | JSDenvir [ Sun Mar 24, 2013 8:06 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: JAPANESE PLANES |
Sorry guys, but if you offend someone, even inadvertently, isn't the appropriate response to say "sorry"? It has nothing to do with political correctness, and everything to do with being on a forum where everyone is supposed to play nicely. Steve |
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