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so many rosewoods. how do you choose?
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Author:  patch [ Thu Mar 21, 2013 1:37 am ]
Post subject:  so many rosewoods. how do you choose?
i'd like one of my next builds to be out of rosewood and there are so many to choose from i'm having trouble deciding. are the differences mostly cosmetic? or do some have a significant difference in tone?

i want to make a dread style with and an adirondack top. i'd like to get a good spectrum top to bottom but also like a good deep bass. i realize there is a whole lot more to it than the wood used but i have to start with getting some wood. i've built 2 with mahogany and sitka and am really happy with the results but want to try different materials.

so i'm curious what are your favorite rosewoods and why?

what makes brazilian the most sought after and is indian the next best thing?

many thanks!
Author:  theguitarwhisperer [ Thu Mar 21, 2013 3:03 am ]
Post subject:  Re: so many rosewoods. how do you choose?
Whatever rosewood, I like straight tight grain.
That's my main criteria.
Author:  DennisK [ Thu Mar 21, 2013 5:07 am ]
Post subject:  Re: so many rosewoods. how do you choose?
Well, they all sound "rosewoody", but each species has its own unique flavor... you really just have to tap on raw sets, and play completed guitars to get an idea what they're like, and even then a lot of it is more subjective than objective. And of course each individual set is unique. For example, some cocobolo is kind of thunky, but other sets ring forever.

Brazilian is one of the lighter weight rosewoods, and longest ringing, and most beautiful, and best smelling, and most traditional... all of which adds up to people wanting it. A bit more crack prone than most of the others, but a lot of that reputation is due to the squirrely grained stumpwood sets that go around these days.

My current favorite is Honduran. Most sets are extremely lively, on par with Brazilian. It's heavier, but if you work it thin, it seems to contribute plenty of reverby zing to the tone. I think it would pair very nicely with adirondack for a dread.

Indian is certainly nice too, and the most plentiful since it's widely grown as a shade tree for coffee plantations, so you don't have to pillage the jungles to get it. I'd recommend Allied Lutherie. I've got a really nice set from them in the stash, and a back of their lowest grade that I used as a soundboard on an experimental guitar... wide grained and kind of dull color, but sounds great :)

And there's Madagascar, bois de rose, Amazon, cocobolo, camatillo, kingwood, Panama/Guatemalan (I think both are D.Tucarensis), southeast Asian, African blackwood... all great woods, and pretty much all threatened.

If you want to try something domestic that sounds like rosewood, get yourself a set of osage orange (aka hedgeapple). It's a bit stringy (long fibers peel up while planing if you're not careful), but it sounds great, bends easily (grain is not interlocked, so no ripples like rosewoods tend to get), and it's not oily so it won't gum up a thickness sander. Trees large enough for back/side sets are pretty uncommon, but the species as a whole is nowhere near endangered. Lots of 'em around here.
Author:  mqbernardo [ Thu Mar 21, 2013 7:01 am ]
Post subject:  Re: so many rosewoods. how do you choose?
Indian rosewood is easy to find quartered, stable, bends easily and is not too difficult to thickness with an hand plane. all good qualities. and it´s cheap.

most of the other rosewoods are either expensive, crack-prone, scarce, difficult to work with hand tools, harder to glue, rarely quartered, threatened, CITES included, toxic (eg. cocobolo dust) or a mix of two or more of these qualities. that said, they do tend to tap "ringier" and longer than EIRW - but how that translates to a finished guitar is not something i can tell you yet. I very much like the looks and tap of Madagascar RW, but the way it´s logged gives me some, er, moral reserves.

good luck!
miguel

edit: i don´t know about the conservation state of Honduran RW (D. stevensonii), but i have a set that is nicely quartered, and was very cheap - so i guess there still should be some left around. it has the longer sustain amongst my pile. quite heavy, but could be a good alternative to EIRW. Dennis - how does it bend? and what about glueing?
thanks.
Author:  Glen H [ Thu Mar 21, 2013 7:39 am ]
Post subject:  Re: so many rosewoods. how do you choose?
Price of good Indian is getting high enough that the price of cocobolo and honduran is not a significant jump. My favs are cocobolo and honduran. The cocobolo has the slight advantage in the bling factor.
Author:  Goodin [ Thu Mar 21, 2013 8:10 am ]
Post subject:  Re: so many rosewoods. how do you choose?
What Todd said about the sensitivity to Coco. I can't go near the stuff now. Bends great though, and plentiful and cheap.

My favorite is Panama rosewood. It bends very easy and holds it's shape well after bending, nice tap, stable, and easy to work. Hard to find though.

Nothing wrong with a good set of Indian.
Author:  Fred Tellier [ Thu Mar 21, 2013 8:39 am ]
Post subject:  Re: so many rosewoods. how do you choose?
I love them all, but have done more Cocobolo than EIR. I did one with Brazilian and it was a joy to work with and have a second set that is waiting for a project worthy of it. I have a beautiful Madagascar set that has been in my Zoot pile for a long time that is going to make a wonderful guitar.

Fred
Author:  grumpy [ Thu Mar 21, 2013 8:52 am ]
Post subject:  Re: so many rosewoods. how do you choose?
Choose with your eyes and wallet.....
Author:  Greg B [ Thu Mar 21, 2013 11:16 am ]
Post subject:  Re: so many rosewoods. how do you choose?
It seems to me that EIR is a very good and underrated wood. People don't seem to appreciate it because of the unfortunate fact that it is readily available and fairly priced. :lol: Looks great, sounds great, and it even smells nice when you bend it. :D

That said, it's nice that there are so many other options around these days.
Author:  patch [ Thu Mar 21, 2013 11:46 am ]
Post subject:  Re: so many rosewoods. how do you choose?
Thanks all for your thoughts!! I really appreciate the in depth responses!

I think I'm going probably a set of eir, coco and honduran. It will be great learning experience to compare them to each other.

Many thanks!!
Author:  RusRob [ Thu Mar 21, 2013 12:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: so many rosewoods. how do you choose?
I am new here and new to guitar making so forgive me if I sound like a newb..

I am just getting started with my first build or I should say just gathering the knowledge to get started.

This may be slightly off topic but...

Are most of you buying your wood on line? And if so how do you know what you are getting as far as grain figure or is it just a matter of chance?

And would you trust buying sets on Ebay?
Author:  RusRob [ Thu Mar 21, 2013 12:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: so many rosewoods. how do you choose?
I guess I just found my answer to knowing what you are getting... Funny I guess that is why you have all the sponsor links at the top... Duhhh...
Author:  Quine [ Thu Mar 21, 2013 12:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: so many rosewoods. how do you choose?
grumpy wrote:
Choose with your eyes and wallet.....


Ditto to that. I'd search this forum for bending advice too. I've only used EIR and it bends like warm plastic. I've heard some other types can be harder to bend but no experience
Author:  JSDenvir [ Thu Mar 21, 2013 12:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: so many rosewoods. how do you choose?
RusRob wrote:
I guess I just found my answer to knowing what you are getting... Funny I guess that is why you have all the sponsor links at the top... Duhhh...

I haven't been doing it for years and years, but I've had nothing but good experiences dealing with OLF sponsors.

Steve
Author:  James Ringelspaugh [ Thu Mar 21, 2013 1:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: so many rosewoods. how do you choose?
grumpy wrote:
Choose with your eyes and wallet.....


Ha ha, spot on
Author:  ScooberJake [ Thu Mar 21, 2013 1:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: so many rosewoods. how do you choose?
RusRob wrote:
I guess I just found my answer to knowing what you are getting... Funny I guess that is why you have all the sponsor links at the top... Duhhh...


Yes, with many of the sponsors you get to see the exact set you are buying. But with others, like LMII, that is not the case. And LMII has I believe the most extensive offering.

Does anyone know, will LMII send pics so you can choose? Or will they at least take requests like "I want quartered" or "I want the wildest figure you've got"?
Author:  Dave Fifield [ Thu Mar 21, 2013 2:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: so many rosewoods. how do you choose?
ScooberJake wrote:
Does anyone know, will LMII send pics so you can choose? Or will they at least take requests like "I want quartered" or "I want the wildest figure you've got"?


Yes, LMI will send you photos if you request them. They will also try to pick sets that match your wants/needs - QS, straight grained, wild figure, flame, etc...

Give them a call!

Cheers,
Dave F.
Author:  Glen H [ Thu Mar 21, 2013 3:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: so many rosewoods. how do you choose?
Filippo Morelli wrote:
Actually Cocobolo is about twice the price of East Indian rosewood. One can purchase an excellent set of East Indian Rosewood for a $100.

There's really not an answer to this question, that is, how one picks, be on the answer, pick what you like. But if in doubt by a nice hundred dollars set of East Indian Rosewood. You really can't go wrong…

Filippo



I've bought coco from Bob for $145 and I'd like to know where to get "excellent" EIR for $100.
Author:  fingerstyle1978 [ Thu Mar 21, 2013 3:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: so many rosewoods. how do you choose?
see my avatar. Coco
Author:  RusRob [ Thu Mar 21, 2013 3:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: so many rosewoods. how do you choose?
Thanks for the response guys,

How would you compare the different rosewoods to mahogany as far as ease of bending? The guitar I want to pattern my first build from is the CF-100 which has hog sides and back but I really don't care for the look of hog.
Author:  Burton LeGeyt [ Thu Mar 21, 2013 3:58 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: so many rosewoods. how do you choose?
All rosewood (in my experience) is pretty easy to bend. Mahogany can actually be more difficult.
Author:  Ken Jones [ Thu Mar 21, 2013 7:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: so many rosewoods. how do you choose?
Rosewoods all seem to respond well to fairly high heat. They reach a point where their lignins seem to liquefy and the piece becomes very plastic. Yet the cellular structure is hard enough that it doesn't tend to collapse in on itself, as does mahogany. This winds up looking like creases that are generally not practical to sand out. I find mahogany to be one of the more difficult-to-bend woods that I've worked with. Koa is similar, but more tolerant to higher temperatures.
Author:  itswednesday14 [ Thu Mar 21, 2013 7:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: so many rosewoods. how do you choose?
If you want the cheapest its probably EI. The most expensive is BR.
If your criterion is sound them BR is the best with EI being the worst.
The other rosewoods are somewhere in between.
Author:  RusRob [ Thu Mar 21, 2013 8:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: so many rosewoods. how do you choose?
Thanks for the response. I was under the idea that Mahogany was easy to bend... So there you go, I just learned something new.

I am looking to minimize the problems I will have with this build so would you consider Rosewood one of the easier woods to bend?

Also, does figuring in the wood have an impact on bending? Should I look to buy straighter grain or can look at more figured grain?

Sorry if my questions seem simplistic to some of you but we all have to start somewhere. I think I feel confident in almost everything except bending the sides and selecting the wood to use.

Thanks
Bob

P.S. Are there any other "easy" woods that I should be look at?
Author:  chiptheshrink [ Thu Mar 21, 2013 8:45 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: so many rosewoods. how do you choose?
One thing about EIR is that there is so much variability. I don't know that I agree when it comes to sound that "EI is the worst", I have a few old sets that are dark and beautiful, hard as iron, and ring like a bell, and a few of grayish plantation-grown sets that are a lot more like cardboard. And there are a lot of $20,000 guitars out there make of EIR. By the same token, I have a set of Brazilian that is so amazing that I wonder if I will ever touch it, and a set cut from stumpwood that would make a stunning guitar, but has almost punky sapwood and, I have no doubt that it would make an inferior guitar to the good EIR sets. I have a few sets of other rosewoods that are better than my worst Brazilian and inferior to my best EIR. I guess my feeling is that there are great and crappy sets of all the rosewoods, and to say that one is inherently likely to make a better sounding guitar really assumes a lot, as I'm also sure that there are probably lots of people on this forum and elsewhere that could take the wood from a packing crate, use it for back & sides, and build a better sounding guitar than I could create from my best set of Brazilian. Find a reliable and experienced supplier, tell them what you are looking for, and pick what you like, ALL the rosewoods can make magnificent sounding guitars. Just my $0.02 worth....
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