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When to fret the Fingerboard?
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Author:  Joe Beaver [ Sun Apr 07, 2013 8:17 pm ]
Post subject:  When to fret the Fingerboard?
I have always glued the fingerboard to the neck and then hammered the frets in. I have been thinking about spending the bucks and invest in a fret press.

If I go that route it seems like pressing the frets in place before the fingerboard is glued down would be the way to go.

Any drawbacks from doing it that way?
Author:  johnparchem [ Sun Apr 07, 2013 8:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: When to fret the Fingerboard?
Lots of people do fret before gluing on the fret board. I always like that last chance to flatten the fret board after it is glued on the neck and the neck on the body. I can also sand in a tiny bit of correction ( more without big fret inlays) if my angle is slightly off.
Author:  Joe Beaver [ Sun Apr 07, 2013 9:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: When to fret the Fingerboard?
Thanks John. Those are pretty much the reasons I waited also. Now I'm thinking the consistency of a press my out weigh the other concerns. Its probably just me but I don't get the frets in as evenly as I want with a hammer. Seems like I always have to pull a few out and redo them. Could just be me.
Author:  John Arnold [ Sun Apr 07, 2013 10:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: When to fret the Fingerboard?
My favorite way to do frets is after the fingerboard is glued, but before the neck has been shaped. The square back on the neck makes all the difference, whether the frets are hammered or pressed.
I press my frets in a 4" bench vise. Works great.
If I feel the need to level the fingerboard at the body joint, I will not install the frets from #11 on up until after the neck is glued in the body.
Quote:
Its probably just me but I don't get the frets in as evenly as I want with a hammer. Seems like I always have to pull a few out and redo them. Could just be me.

I have done well over a thousand fret jobs, and I still occasionally have to pull a hammered fret and redo it. One 'trick' is to bend the fret more than the fretboard radius, because hammering them tends to make the ends pop up.
Author:  theguitarwhisperer [ Sun Apr 07, 2013 11:06 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: When to fret the Fingerboard?
Joe Beaver wrote:
Thanks John. Those are pretty much the reasons I waited also. Now I'm thinking the consistency of a press my out weigh the other concerns. Its probably just me but I don't get the frets in as evenly as I want with a hammer. Seems like I always have to pull a few out and redo them. Could just be me.


I acctually do the frets last after I've glued the fretboard, shaped the back of the neck, and attached the neck to the guitar. I rough the fretboard in on my edge sander, and do the final leveling after the fretboard is glued down, then I fret. The wood can expand, contract, or release tension throughout all those processes even with "perfect" timber selection.

It just seems to me that, especially with acoustics that are traditionally built, IE the fretboard is glued to the top of the guitar, no matter how evenly and perfectly your frets are installed, that can't make up for a little bit of up or down rampage, and I wouldn't want to have to rely on leveling out my perfectly installed frets for that, although my fretboards don't ever seem to need more than the slightest touch up after attaching the neck.

Better safe than sorry in my view.
Author:  Joe Beaver [ Sun Apr 07, 2013 11:42 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: When to fret the Fingerboard?
Thanks guys.
John,
I will try the 'over bending trick" it makes perfect sense. I like to use locating pins when gluing the fretboard down. Since you have the fretboard glued down before you fret it I suppose I could use the same aligning pin procedure. How do you do the alignmnt?

Whisperer,
You do it pretty much as I have always done it. I'd glue it down, let it dry and check with a straight edge, sanding here and there as needed then fret. I think John pretty much still can do that using the press after glueing it down.
Author:  FishtownMike [ Sun Apr 07, 2013 11:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: When to fret the Fingerboard?
I bought a used stew mac fret caul on ebay with the intention of making my own fret press with an arbor press that I bought at harbor freight. I never got around to it. I like hammering them in after the fingerboard is glued on. If I have an issues it easier to deal with without the frets. but I have seen some who do press them in after the fingerboard is glued on. They use a shaped neck caul to hold the neck. Maybe I will eventually build the fret press and give it a try..
Author:  Joe Beaver [ Mon Apr 08, 2013 12:09 am ]
Post subject:  Re: When to fret the Fingerboard?
The stew Mac setup is the one I've been eyeing. I might just order one and play with it
Author:  Tai Fu [ Mon Apr 08, 2013 4:21 am ]
Post subject:  Re: When to fret the Fingerboard?
One other thing to check for is the fret slot is deep enough when hammering... a lot of my hammering difficulty comes from fret slot too shallow, causing the frets to not seat correctly and consequently popping up at the edge.
Author:  Jeff Highland [ Mon Apr 08, 2013 5:00 am ]
Post subject:  Re: When to fret the Fingerboard?
I am in the minority here but I fret before gluing the board, but after installing short locating pins through first and 12th fret slots.
Use a rigid caul over the board when gluing.
My fretboard tongues are cantilivered not glued to the soundboard
Author:  Goodin [ Mon Apr 08, 2013 7:29 am ]
Post subject:  Re: When to fret the Fingerboard?
I do it like Jeff does. Fret before gluing but using locating pins on a few frets. To press them in I just use a scrap piece of wood and a heavy duty clamp to press them in. You don't need a fancy fret press doing it this way (no radius in my fretboard though). I build using the Spanish heel method but I am about to start on a steel string so I might do the frets after gluing on the fretboard this time, if it makes a difference.
Author:  LarryH [ Mon Apr 08, 2013 8:04 am ]
Post subject:  Re: When to fret the Fingerboard?
I've done a couple recently and I installed the frets before gluing the fret board to the upper bout. I also took great care in making sure the neck angle and the upper bout angle didn't change the direction of the fret board after gluing. I've read too many stories of the ski ramp or drop off at the neck joint when using this technique (with the only cure being to pull the frets and reshape the neck) that I'll probably find a way to install frets after the fret board is glued on, level the fret board one last time then install frets. NEVER comfortable pounding on the fret board extension over the finished top though.
Author:  John Arnold [ Mon Apr 08, 2013 12:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: When to fret the Fingerboard?
Quote:
How do you do the alignment?

I use two 1/2" long brads which are installed through the fret slots at #1 and #13.
The brads are waxed and pulled out after the glue dries. If the fretboard is already fretted, I install the brads right below the frets, and fill the holes with an ebony or rosewood sliver.
Quote:
You don't need a fancy fret press doing it this way (no radius in my fretboard though).

Most of my fretboards are radiused, and I just use a curved block of hardwood to press them in the vise. The block is about 1" thick by 3/4" wide.
Quote:
NEVER comfortable pounding on the fret board extension over the finished top though.

I hold a five pound block of metal underneath to take the impact. Not only does it ease my mind, but it makes the frets go in so much better. Very often, I will file the barbs off one side of the fret tang to make the extension frets go in a little easier. I also use a bit of CA on those frets to help hold them.
Author:  Joe Beaver [ Mon Apr 08, 2013 7:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: When to fret the Fingerboard?
Some great advice here. I'm leaning toward John Arnold's suggestion of fully fretting the board and using the brads just below the frets. Wish I had thought of that!
Author:  Lars Rasmussen [ Tue Apr 09, 2013 2:09 am ]
Post subject:  Re: When to fret the Fingerboard?
I like to fret after the guitar is finished and buffed out. What I like about that is the possibillity to sand in a fall-off from the 9th or 11th fret(depending on the body joint) and avoid som of the neckjoint hump that may else happen. I use a full-bolt-on neckjoint which helps a lot. I put the neck on, level the fingerboard and then take the neck off and bolt it to my workbench fixture(see attached pic). There i hammer the frets in, shape the edges and then put it back on the body if the frets need leveling. Then off again for polishing. I realize this is only possible when using a full bolt-on, but fretting is one of the reasons i have chosen to use it:)
Author:  theguitarwhisperer [ Tue Apr 09, 2013 2:16 am ]
Post subject:  Re: When to fret the Fingerboard?
LarryH wrote:
NEVER comfortable pounding on the fret board extension over the finished top though.


That's why you shouldn't pound.

I use gentle taps across the width of the fret back and forth.

If the slots are prepared for this you shouldn't have to tap very hard.

I use an 8 ounce brass hammer, the weight imparts the correct force without hitting very hard, unlike the shot-filled rubber dead blow hammer I started off using.
Author:  bluescreek [ Tue Apr 09, 2013 6:13 am ]
Post subject:  Re: When to fret the Fingerboard?
We all find out techniques that work for us.
I recently changed to a fret after neck set. I will set my neck , true the fretboard to the neck and body, then fret. I do this before I finish the neck. Once the fretboard is on the neck and trued up and hammer in the frets. I use a cobblers chasing hammer. You don't have to pound in the frets , light taps do the job. I will use a glue like tite bond or fish glue , that works like a lube to let the barbs slide into the slot , then as it cures it helps to fill voids.
Fretting is all about prep.
Author:  Tai Fu [ Tue Apr 09, 2013 6:37 am ]
Post subject:  Re: When to fret the Fingerboard?
So where do you put the shot bag? Inside the guitar or on it?
Author:  Tai Fu [ Tue Apr 09, 2013 7:05 am ]
Post subject:  Re: When to fret the Fingerboard?
I dont really have access to lead shots... I have looked. Dont say gun shop because its illegal in my country. I can only get lead blocks. I have been using wood blocks or a piece of brick to back it up
Author:  Trevor Gore [ Tue Apr 09, 2013 7:54 am ]
Post subject:  Re: When to fret the Fingerboard?
Tai Fu wrote:
I dont really have access to lead shots...

Split shot, used as fishing weights??
Author:  Tai Fu [ Tue Apr 09, 2013 8:01 am ]
Post subject:  Re: When to fret the Fingerboard?
Its expensive in large quantities...
Author:  Lars Rasmussen [ Tue Apr 09, 2013 8:04 am ]
Post subject:  Re: When to fret the Fingerboard?
Todd Stock wrote:
Hot hide here...cleans out easily on a refret as well. I use a 5 ounce deadblow hammer from MSC - the orange Stanley, and a standard brass and hard plastic hammer for the few frets that need a little more persuasion. My approach to fretting over the body is to back the area with something relatively massive (3 lb bag of lead shot) and suspend the body...the lead sucks up the bounce and the firm taps seat the fret with minimum bother. As mentioned, it's not John Henry...consistent, firm taps. I seat one side of the tang, then work across the fret for standard fretwork that is not cut-to-length.


HHG here as well. I warm the frets laying on the edge of my hold-heet glue pot, and the glue sets pretty fast as i tap the fret into the cold fingerboard. Big plus for the cleanup too:)
Author:  Terence Kennedy [ Tue Apr 09, 2013 8:53 am ]
Post subject:  Re: When to fret the Fingerboard?
Lars I love that fixture for your full bolt-on necks. I use a full bolt on too.

I glue on the board, shape the neck, and level the fretboard with a little tension on the rod while it's bolted onto the guitar. Sand in some drop off. Fret to about 10 with jaws (still bolted onto the guitar), then support the headstock and add about 6lbs of weight on each shoulder of the upper bout and see what the neck is doing. Adjust the truss rod and then look at the extension. If I need more drop off I can sand it in at this point and even out the transition and then fret the extension. I use the lead shot filled bag too and compress the tangs a little on those frets. Love the Orange Stanley hammer-Thanks Todd.

I've been using the off the shelf hide. If it's fresh it dries hard like glass. I stick some in a syringe with an 18G needle to lay it in the slots. You may say I'm nuts but I am absolutely convinced that hide in the fret slots does good things for tone.
Author:  Goodin [ Tue Apr 09, 2013 8:57 am ]
Post subject:  Re: When to fret the Fingerboard?
Tai Fu wrote:
I dont really have access to lead shots... I have looked. Dont say gun shop because its illegal in my country. I can only get lead blocks. I have been using wood blocks or a piece of brick to back it up


Use a sand bag.
Author:  ernie [ Fri Apr 12, 2013 10:59 am ]
Post subject:  Re: When to fret the Fingerboard?
I use a bunch Of copper/silver BB/s from walmart in a large sock . abt 2lbs worth.
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