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Finishing advice needed
http://luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=40084
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Author:  dpm99 [ Tue Apr 16, 2013 11:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Finishing advice needed

I'm getting close to finish time on a guitar I've been working on for some time. I think it wants to be gloss. The problem is I've never done much successful finishing with anything other than TruOil. It's been a go-to for a long time. I'd like to branch out, at least a little.

I don't have any spray equipment, but I've seen good results with Preval sprayers (http://www.homedepot.com/p/Preval-9-oz- ... W4i_soX-Sq). I'm just not so good at spraying yet. And it makes me nervous to try it on a guitar. I could, of course, learn French Polish, but I'd prefer something a bit tougher. So I've thought about trying another varnish. I am concerned I won't be able to get the gloss I'm looking for though.

I'm looking for advice. Bite the bullet, and learn to spray really quick? Run to Ace Hardware and buy some of that gloss varnish everyone seems to think highly of? Or just go with good old TruOil? Or...I dunno. Anybody care to weigh in?

Thanks in advance.,
David

Author:  Ken Franklin [ Wed Apr 17, 2013 1:46 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Finishing advice needed

Another alternative would be to make your own wipe on varnish with the Ace varnish. It's inexpensive and pretty foolproof. You can get a very nice gloss that way but it does take some time to build. It's also easy to put down a very even coat unlike brushing (or even spraying if your not good at it). Here's an article with some great advice. http://www.hardwoodlumberandmore.com/Articles/ArticleViewPage/tabid/75/ArticleId/5/Wipe-on-Varnish.aspx

Author:  B. Howard [ Wed Apr 17, 2013 4:13 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Finishing advice needed

Rattle can lacquer from stew Mac or Behlins, both work well.

Author:  bluescreek [ Wed Apr 17, 2013 6:11 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Finishing advice needed

One key to getting a good finish is the prep. Spruce won't need filling but the back and sides may. I don't fill maple or cherry. Most other woods will.
Any mistake under the finish may show up on the finish. I also recommend that you use the sealer from the manufacture or what they recommend. This is also about chemistry and finish compatibility. Getting a good base coat and allow cure time , level sanding finish coats level off buff polish.
It is easy just takes a lot of time . This is one thing you cannot rush

Author:  Tony_in_NYC [ Wed Apr 17, 2013 8:05 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Finishing advice needed

I recommend brushed lacquer or rattle can lacquer. Both can be purchased at Lowes. I use Deft and although some people say it is not suitable for guitars for some reason, I have had no problems with 8 guitars and a ukulele. If you brush, the sanding takes longer since it does not go on as flat, but you can achieve an excellent finish with either brushed or rattle can lacquer. Here is a guitar I built and finished with Deft rattle cans:
Image

And here is one I finished with Deft brushing lacquer:
Image

I had zero experience finishing anything with lacquer prior to completing my first guitar. I learned it all from the internet and by myself. It was not hard at all. Lacquer is really forgiving, so if you mess up, just add more coats. You won't have to worry about witness lines with real nitrocellulose lacquer regardless of how long you wait between coats. Give lacquer a try. Just buy a good mask to protect yourself from the fumes. I bought my mask at Lowes as well. It is a 3M mask with VOC filters and it cost about $20. Good luck and post pics!

Author:  bluescreek [ Wed Apr 17, 2013 8:22 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Finishing advice needed

your building skills are impeccable Tony you are doing a find job.

Author:  klooker [ Wed Apr 17, 2013 9:20 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Finishing advice needed

+1 for rattle cans.

I've used Deft too, no problems yet. People say it's too brittle & is prone to cracking.

IMO it would be difficult to put on too much with rattle cans. It's already thinned a lot so that it will spray. I'd guess it would take in excess of 15 coats (or more) before it got too thick.

Kevin Looker

Author:  Ken Franklin [ Wed Apr 17, 2013 9:51 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Finishing advice needed

In my experience the problem with Deft is that it's too soft.

Author:  Stuart Gort [ Wed Apr 17, 2013 9:55 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Finishing advice needed

I used rattle can lacquer on my first guitar. Couldn't have been easier. Do the prep well...like bluescreek says. There's no short cut there. When the surface you are spraying onto is perfectly sealed and flat...I think you'll be surprised how easy it is to spray a topcoat...any topcoat...and lacquer is the easiest, most forgiving topcoat of them all.

Author:  sdsollod [ Wed Apr 17, 2013 10:09 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Finishing advice needed

I found the Deft waterbourne lacquer to be soft - I don't know about the Deft Nitro...

Author:  dpm99 [ Wed Apr 17, 2013 10:47 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Finishing advice needed

I'm working on the surface prep now. I'm grain filling with Timbermate, and I'm painting it black.

I really appreciate the advice. It sounds like it's high time I learned to spray lacquer. If I use a Preval sprayer, I'm not limited to rattle cans. Is there a good brand of lacquer to look for at HD/Lowe's/Ace? I have some in the shop, but I think it's pretty old.

Author:  Stuart Gort [ Wed Apr 17, 2013 12:11 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Finishing advice needed

A word of advice....how lacquer sprays and lays down is determined by pressure, orifice size, reducer ratio, and retarder ratio. All these variables are figured out by the manufacturers of the rattle can lacquer. Using a Preval you may need to develop a formula to get things to lay down nicely...which is the case with any spray system. I'd very much recommend using the Behlen's Musical Instrument lacquer in a rattle can on your first go. Woodcrafter sells this for sure...and StewMac does too...I think.

Author:  Darryl Young [ Wed Apr 17, 2013 12:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Finishing advice needed

Here is a link to a finishing kit from Grizzly that uses Behlen products. Cost is $136.

http://www.grizzly.com/products/Guitar-Finishing-Kit/T21176

Image

Author:  dpm99 [ Wed Apr 17, 2013 5:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Finishing advice needed

That's excellent advice. I think Darryl's recommendation may be out of my price range, but I could certainly get a couple of $13.99 rattle cans. I might just drive down to Woodcraft this weekend.

Author:  stan thomison [ Wed Apr 17, 2013 5:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Finishing advice needed

I got the rattle from Lowes and HD. Mostly used a 3 turbine Wagner 2600 for years and was a great finish system. But what gets you there is doing it and fixing mistakes and doing it. Soon you get pretty good at it.

Author:  dpm99 [ Wed Apr 17, 2013 10:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Finishing advice needed

stan thomison wrote:
But what gets you there is doing it and fixing mistakes and doing it. Soon you get pretty good at it.


Just like every other step in building a guitar...

Author:  Laidback1 [ Wed Apr 17, 2013 11:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Finishing advice needed

Ken Franklin wrote:
Another alternative would be to make your own wipe on varnish with the Ace varnish. It's inexpensive and pretty foolproof. You can get a very nice gloss that way but it does take some time to build. It's also easy to put down a very even coat unlike brushing (or even spraying if your not good at it). Here's an article with some great advice. http://www.hardwoodlumberandmore.com/Articles/ArticleViewPage/tabid/75/ArticleId/5/Wipe-on-Varnish.aspx

Ken,
Interesting! Have you used wipe-on on guitar? Picture would be great!
After pore filling, what do you seal it with prior to varnishing? You use any specific brand?
Any extra info appreciated!
Mark

Author:  Ken Franklin [ Thu Apr 18, 2013 1:26 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Finishing advice needed

Laidback1 wrote:
Ken Franklin wrote:
Another alternative would be to make your own wipe on varnish with the Ace varnish. It's inexpensive and pretty foolproof. You can get a very nice gloss that way but it does take some time to build. It's also easy to put down a very even coat unlike brushing (or even spraying if your not good at it). Here's an article with some great advice. http://www.hardwoodlumberandmore.com/Articles/ArticleViewPage/tabid/75/ArticleId/5/Wipe-on-Varnish.aspx

Ken,
Interesting! Have you used wipe-on on guitar? Picture would be great!
After pore filling, what do you seal it with prior to varnishing? You use any specific brand?
Any extra info appreciated!
Mark


I did a wipe on this winter when the weather wasn't so great for spraying. But I don't have any pictures. I sealed with shellac first. It didn't require pore filling since it was pau fero with a cherry neck.

I do have a picture of a friend's guitar with Ace varnish modified for wiping on. Came out nice. Only problem being that it took some time to build up. It was a retopped guitar for a friend and wasn't meant to be perfect but it came out pretty nice considering it wasn't buffed. The neck finish was original to the guitar.

Author:  Laidback1 [ Thu Apr 18, 2013 3:37 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Finishing advice needed

Ken,
Thanks for the info! Going to try that on a scrap piece and see how it does....

Author:  Tony_in_NYC [ Thu Apr 18, 2013 10:55 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Finishing advice needed

Ken,
That's a sweet rosette. Any pics of making it available?

Author:  Ken Franklin [ Thu Apr 18, 2013 4:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Finishing advice needed

That one isn't mine, Tony. You'll have to ask Link.

Author:  Link Van Cleave [ Thu Apr 18, 2013 5:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Finishing advice needed

Tony

Author:  Tony_in_NYC [ Fri Apr 19, 2013 2:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Finishing advice needed

That is a sweet rosette. Do you have pics of how you made it? I could probably guess, but it's Friday and I used up most of my available brain power earlier this week.

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