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ABOUT ALL THIS WOOD
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Author:  Tim L [ Thu May 16, 2013 7:10 pm ]
Post subject:  ABOUT ALL THIS WOOD
I'm curious.
If you find a set of wood that you like, or a customer wants for his guitar, how long do you wait before you build with it?
Does it matter to you if the wood is kiln dried or air dried? and
Does that change the time you wait?
Would you pay more for wood that was cut, stacked and dried specifically for tonewood?

I'm asking what DO you do, not what you think is the right way to do it.
beehive

I ask as I see both, and in the 2 people that have pretty much mentored me over the last 10 years. In all fairness one builds 600-700 guitars every year, the other 10-15.
Their philosophies are not that far apart especially on the big picture. Sometimes it does get confusing though.

Tim
Author:  DannyV [ Thu May 16, 2013 7:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: ABOUT ALL THIS WOOD
I would sticker it and have it spend at least a month in your humidity controlled area. That is providing it is dry wood. Either kiln dried, or air dried for an sufficient period of time. Most of the better known, reliable sellers, Bob C , Arron Hix, etc you might go a couple weeks in your shop. In general, don't rush it. That's your excuse to have a big stash of wood. :lol:

Happy Building,
Danny
Author:  Kent Chasson [ Thu May 16, 2013 8:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: ABOUT ALL THIS WOOD
Tim L wrote:
I'm curious.
If you find a set of wood that you like, or a customer wants for his guitar, how long do you wait before you build with it?


Depends on the moisture content and how thick it is. If less than 1/8" and already dry, a week can be enough. If green and 4" thick, at least 5-10 years.

Tim L wrote:
Does it matter to you if the wood is kiln dried or air dried? and
Does that change the time you wait?


Only thing that matters to me is that is was dried correctly. Either can be fine and either can be screwed up.

Tim L wrote:
Would you pay more for wood that was cut, stacked and dried specifically for tonewood?


That's pretty much a given. If you buy tonewood as tonewood, you pay more. I buy what I can as rough lumber and mill it myself but some things, especially tops and rosewoods, are very hard to find as rough lumber in the quality needed.

Hope this helps.
Author:  Tim L [ Thu May 16, 2013 10:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: ABOUT ALL THIS WOOD
Thanks for the answers guys.
I started buying wood in 2004 with the intent that it was going to sit in my shop for at least 5 years before using it. I know that's overkill, but I also know exactly what it is, that it has been stickered and rotated properly.
I have bought "tonewood" from all the usual suspects and paid more, but that doesn't always eliminate my problems. Whether it be from too much time in the kiln or cutting the wood too hot or cutting green wood too thin, I have wound up with potato chips from the beginning. Another big problem for me has been runout, not only in tops but also in sides that are prone to splitting. How can you be sure that the wood you are buying has been cut and processed properly before you buy it? And what is acceptable runout and proper seasoning for tonewood, especially tops? It's a bummer to have a nice set of wood that you paid good money for be unusable.
If you stop and think about it even Martin is buying wood years in advance and rotating their stock. Maybe part of it has to do with what they are getting for the guitar and how many they are making. Even if I give a set of wood to someone to make a high end guitar, it still sits in their shop for a year before they start. Have you ever had any problems with wood that had been seasoned properly, but only for a few months, before starting?

Maybe that's why I have too much wood.

Tim
Author:  Kent Chasson [ Fri May 17, 2013 2:31 am ]
Post subject:  Re: ABOUT ALL THIS WOOD
Tim L wrote:
I have bought "tonewood" from all the usual suspects and paid more, but that doesn't always eliminate my problems.

First, make sure it is a problem. Any wood will cup if left flat on a bench.
Tim L wrote:
How can you be sure that the wood you are buying has been cut and processed properly before you buy it?

Buy from established suppliers. I've purchased from most of the sponsors here and only returned stuff once. They were very gracious about taking it back.
Tim L wrote:
And what is acceptable runout and proper seasoning for tonewood, especially tops?
For tops, it depends on the species and grade. Many suppliers have specs on their web sites and all that I've dealt with will tell you if you ask. IMO, there's no reason there should be any runout in Sitka or Cedar unless you are getting very low grade wood. Due to smaller trees and twist, it's usually harder to find species like Engelmann, Euro, or Adi without some runout on the outside edge but the joined edge should be good. As for back/sides, there's really no rules. Any flamed wood is marked up precisely because it has runout ;)
Tim L wrote:
Have you ever had any problems with wood that had been seasoned properly, but only for a few months, before starting?
There's drying and there's seasoning. Drying is the process of getting the wood down to equilibrium moisture content. Most people use "seasoning" to mean a process of exposing wood to multiple cycles of hot/cold, wetter/dryer, usually over many years. The thought is that this eventually makes the wood less hygroscopic and maybe changes the cell structure in a way that improves sound. Not saying I believe or disbelieve that but that's what most people seem to mean by "seasoned". Stability (or lack of it) in wood has to do with many factors. Sounds like Hoadley's "Understanding Wood" might be a good read for you.
Author:  Tim L [ Fri May 17, 2013 11:45 am ]
Post subject:  Re: ABOUT ALL THIS WOOD
Kent,

Guess I'm not being clear.
All my wood is stickered for at least 2 years in a properly humidified room. Some longer. If buying sets that have been kiln dried they go on stickers as soon as they are unwrapped which is within a day. Not talking about that. I'm talking about wood that is received and has a 1/2"- 1" cup in it when the box is opened. Wood that can't immediately go on stickers that supposedly has been kiln dried. The wood I have a problem with is the wood that is received with a problem. Does it make a difference to anyone if the wood being cut from split billets? or if the board has runout in it?

Good point on my seasoning remark, acclimating would have been a better choice of words. If I'm cutting ebony billets they normally sit around, stickered, under a tent for 6 months after they are cut it into 22" lengths and then for another year after taking them down to 3/8"thickness. After that they may get moved into a humidity controlled room. If it is coming out of a kiln, should be able to sticker it in a controlled room. Same with reclaimed wood, or wood that has bee drying several years before being cut. Someone once told me to stick my tops up in the attic and forget about them for a while. If they were stacked or in cants it would probably work as long there are no bugs. But that is not what I am talking about.

What I was getting at is that people do use wood after letting it sit on their shelf for a week or 2. I am wondering how many do that or how many people are letting their wood air dry? Are people just buying what they need to build a specific guitar or are they accumulating wood when they can find it, to be used down the road? Is anyone cutting up wood to use that has been air drying for 6-7 years and probably won't get used for another 6 months?

Tim
Author:  B. Howard [ Fri May 17, 2013 3:17 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: ABOUT ALL THIS WOOD
I place it in my wood storage area and I monitor the weight of the pieces closely, that tells me the MC of the wood. When it has stabilized and remained so for at least one week I consider it ready to build.
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