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I fear that my chisels are too short
http://luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=40429		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  WindyCityBluesBox [ Mon May 20, 2013 8:15 pm ]
Post subject:  I fear that my chisels are too short
Somebody gave a set of craftsman chisels to me as a gift. I had previously done research on chisels, and was pretty certain that these craftsman chisels wouldn't quite work for what I need to do, as they are construction chisels. Anyhow, I recently ordered a diamond sharpening stone and a honing guide. The chisels are too short to fit properly in the honing guide at a 30 degree angle. When comparing the craftsman chisels to others that I saw online, I noticed that the irons on these are RIDICULOUSLY short. What do I do with these things? Is there any way to consistently sharpen them to the point of usefulness, or will these end up on the "island of misfit tools"?
Author:  AnthonyE [ Mon May 20, 2013 8:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: I fear that my chisels are too short
Grind them on a 6" bench grinder (use caution so as not to over heat the steel) and use the hollow grind as a resting point to sharpen on. Do a little searching on the web for free hand sharpening/honing and you will come up with endless tutorials on sharpening free hand.
Author:  Tony_in_NYC [ Tue May 21, 2013 12:20 am ]
Post subject:  Re: I fear that my chisels are too short
Your "chisel" is too short, eh? I hear they can correct that with surgery these days.
Author:  Ken Franklin [ Tue May 21, 2013 1:02 am ]
Post subject:  Re: I fear that my chisels are too short
Brian Burns makes a honing guide that will fit almost any size chisel. http://www.lessonsinlutherie.com/doublebevelsharpening.html
Author:  DennisK [ Tue May 21, 2013 1:41 am ]
Post subject:  Re: I fear that my chisels are too short
I have this problem as well, on chisels, spokeshaves, finger planes... I've been tempted to get this http://www.leevalley.com/US/Wood/page.aspx?p=51868&cat=1,43072,43078&ap=1 which looks like it grips the blade closer to the edge, but it may still be too far back for the spokeshave blade, in which case I'd also have to buy the small blade holder thingie, which would allow using my old honing guide for those anyway, but not for the chisels gaah

Actually the old guide can sort of grip chisels, just not that accurately. So maybe I should just get the small blade holder and keep doing what I've been doing for the chisels.

I hate sharpening.
Author:  nickinbruns [ Tue May 21, 2013 2:07 am ]
Post subject:  Re: I fear that my chisels are too short
+1 Dennis. BUT, I just do it by hand. I know that there are heaps of folks out there that are as fussy as, but mine always work. I couldn't tell you the angle, nor the second, blah, blah,blah...

I just make them sharp. When they stop being sharp, I make them sharp again, whether it was 5 minutes or 500 minutes since I sharpened them last....

Usually, I start truing them up on my belt sander, since I don't have a grinder, then I go thru coarse and fine stones. Done.....no Japanese water stones at $800 a set, etc, etc....

Thought about the water stones, but then had a look at meself in the mirror and realised I'm just not that kind of guy..... :o

If it was me, I'd just rock the chisels until they sit nice and then rub them back and forth....OR, make your own guide out of a bit of hardwood mitred at the correct angle for you.....
Author:  Michael.N. [ Tue May 21, 2013 2:38 am ]
Post subject:  Re: I fear that my chisels are too short
Freehand:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a6ykVzL2VAM

When I first started in woodwork around '74 I can't ever remember coming across a honing guide. They existed but I never saw the old timers using one.
Author:  Colin North [ Tue May 21, 2013 3:41 am ]
Post subject:  Re: I fear that my chisels are too short
If you would like a guide, the Kell No 1 honing guide was originally designed for short Japanese chisels.
I have one and it works very well for both Japanese and western chisels.
One supplier in the USA is here - http://www.garrettwade.com/standard-british-honing-guide/p/62J02.12/
Made in UK, maker's site is http://www.richardkell.co.uk/honingECom.htm
Author:  Clinchriver [ Tue May 21, 2013 3:45 am ]
Post subject:  Re: I fear that my chisels are too short
Colin North wrote:
If you would like a guide, the Kell honing guide was originally designed for short Japanese chisels.
I have one and it works very well for both Japanese and western chisels.
One supplier in the USA is here - http://www.garrettwade.com/standard-british-honing-guide/p/62J02.12/
Made in UK, maker's site is http://www.richardkell.co.uk/honingECom.htm


Thats a good one.
Author:  Colin North [ Tue May 21, 2013 5:20 am ]
Post subject:  Re: I fear that my chisels are too short
Todd's got a good point - I checked on the price/quality of Craftsman chisels.

You could get a couple of good chisels for the price of the cheapest Kell jig, and you have a sharpening jig and stone already.
Author:  ernie [ Tue May 21, 2013 10:17 am ]
Post subject:  Re: I fear that my chisels are too short
I regulate short chisels for other useful tasks by the addition of a longer hdwd handle. I have found lots of unwanted older chisels at yard sales with vy good steel, that just need a cleaning.
Author:  theguitarwhisperer [ Tue May 21, 2013 10:44 am ]
Post subject:  Re: I fear that my chisels are too short
I bought a few awesome ancient super long chisels off eBay for around $20 each.

A little sharpening,they're good to go.
Author:  nyazzip [ Tue May 21, 2013 5:39 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: I fear that my chisels are too short
you don't need a guide to hone a chisel, as long as your bevel is already nice and crisp. i bought a guide and never use it, except if i have to regrind due to a chip
Author:  James Orr [ Tue May 21, 2013 6:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: I fear that my chisels are too short
DennisK wrote:
I have this problem as well, on chisels, spokeshaves, finger planes... I've been tempted to get this http://www.leevalley.com/US/Wood/page.aspx?p=51868&cat=1,43072,43078&ap=1


My finger plane blades were actually too small for my Mark II. The Lie-Nielsen model maker's blade was about the smallest I could work.

Ken Franklin wrote:
Brian Burns makes a honing guide that will fit almost any size chisel. http://www.lessonsinlutherie.com/doublebevelsharpening.html


This is what I'm working with now, and it's my favorite system to date. I'm getting my best edges. The only trouble I have is making sure the blade is square to the guide. Once I clamp it in, I hold one of the shims up to the side and candle it. Size is also a little cumbersome unless you have some bench space to let it hang out on permanently. Brian has a nice video online.



Lie-Nielsen has directions for a stone well online that's pretty similar to Todd's. I think this is the fastest type of system.
Author:  cphanna [ Tue May 21, 2013 6:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: I fear that my chisels are too short
Alex,
Let me say right up front that I have nothing against honing guides. Some day I might even buy one. But honing guides can only give good results with a very flat honing surface or stone. Not such a problem with folks using abrasive papers on a flat surface, or folks who know how to flatten their stones. My point is that the guide itself will only carry you so far... Since the early 1970s, I've been honing by hand. It's really not all that difficult. Like so many other things, it just requires a little practice and then, pretty soon, you can do it. I will add, though, that I usually use some sort of guide when I hollow grind my blades. Sometimes nothing more than my forefinger knuckle riding against the rod on my grinder. But I always try to register against something when hollow grinding. Once I've got a good hollow grind, I can feel the bevel of the blade riding on my honing surface. Give it a try. Believe, me, if I can do it, you can, too. Good luck!
Patrick
Author:  wrstew [ Tue May 21, 2013 7:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: I fear that my chisels are too short
For little cash you can find old good guality chisels here: http://www.brasscityrecords.com/toolwor ... tools.html
Walt combs flea markets in the East for good stuff that will take and hold an edge, and sells for reasonable prices. They come and go, so you have to check back, but a great place to shop.
Author:  senunkan [ Tue May 21, 2013 9:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: I fear that my chisels are too short
I do it free hand all the time.
It really doesn't matter if the angle is 25 degrees or 24.5 degrees or 25.1 degrees...
As long as the edges are sharp, the chisel will do the work for you.
When you pull backwards (direction towards handle), apply more pressure so that the bevel is flat on the stone.
When you go forward (against the cutting edge) relax the pressure a little.
After a while you get the hang of it such that you throw away the honing guide.
Free hand sharpening gets the job done faster and the chisel work just as it should without problem.
Author:  Arnt Rian [ Wed May 22, 2013 3:23 am ]
Post subject:  Re: I fear that my chisels are too short
There's an old joke up here, about the man who was too busy chopping wood to regrind his axe... Whatever sharpening system you chose, the main thing is to get into the habit of using it, often. That might seem obvious, but it is easy to keep taking "just one more cut", instead of taking a few moments to hone. You are probably more likely to sharpen if everything is set up and ready to go at all times, so a sharpening station, or a designated space on a bench, is a good idea. Then pick a sharpening system, any system that works, and keep using it. After a while all the repetitions will make your sharpening routine become second nature, and as natural as turning on the light, and as important to your work.

I've used a combination of a diamond stones, Japanese water stones and an inexpensive side clamping honing jig for years. The jig even accepts my few butt chisels, and most of my plane irons, except the smallest finger plane irons, which I do by hand. Really badly chipped bench plane edges etc get set up on a belt sander, with the same honing jig, simple honing on the fine water stone is done by hand. It works well enough.
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