Official Luthiers Forum! :: View topic - Spray with neck on or off?

Also, it seems most factory guitars have something of a 'build finish' at the neck to body joint. How do you go about achieving this? Is this something that custom builders desire?

Doug Balzer wrote:

Also, it seems most factory guitars have something of a 'build finish' at the neck to body joint. How do you go about achieving this? Is this something that custom builders desire?

This is the sign of a cheap guitar. If you want that, use epoxy to glue the neck to the body make sure there is some squeeze out so you can smooth it out with a finger and clean the rest up with denatured alcohol.

Great conversation all! Interestingly enough, in his videos Robbie O'Brien sprays with neck on. I'd love to hear him on this subject.

I set the neck, bolt it on, and tape the perimeter of the fretboard tongue over the top. Then pull the neck. Then tape 1/8" inside that perimeter. Then pull the outside tape. Spray. I then chamfer the lacquer edge (block sand is fine), and glue up. I don't worry about a perfect glue joint to the fretboard - plenty of surface area for a non-loaded joint, and if it has to come off, I'm happy if it's not too much work :-)

Filippo

I spray with the neck on... it's just easier to hold the guitar while spraying, then I can hang it by the tuner hole to spray the neck. Plus it just feels more complete...

Author:	Doug Balzer [ Tue Jan 21, 2014 9:01 am ]
Post subject:	Spray with neck on or off?
So I'm considering the pros and cons of spraying with the neck on or off. What do you do? I'll be shooting Mohawk instrument lacquer on top of sealer with a Fuji Q3. Also, it seems most factory guitars have something of a 'build finish' at the neck to body joint. How do you go about achieving this? Is this something that custom builders desire? Thanks for your input! I love this forum. I'd be up the frozen creek without a hockey stick without it. Yup. I am Canadian, eh?

Author:	Fred Tellier [ Tue Jan 21, 2014 9:29 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Spray with neck on or off?
I did my 1st 2 guitars with the neck on and then smartened up and started finishing with the neck off. Easier and safer to do it that way. Fred

Author:	StevenWheeler [ Tue Jan 21, 2014 9:34 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Spray with neck on or off?
Doug Balzer wrote: Also, it seems most factory guitars have something of a 'build finish' at the neck to body joint. How do you go about achieving this? Is this something that custom builders desire? This is the sign of a cheap guitar. If you want that, use epoxy to glue the neck to the body make sure there is some squeeze out so you can smooth it out with a finger and clean the rest up with denatured alcohol.

Author:	ZekeM [ Tue Jan 21, 2014 9:49 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Spray with neck on or off?
StevenWheeler wrote: Doug Balzer wrote: Also, it seems most factory guitars have something of a 'build finish' at the neck to body joint. How do you go about achieving this? Is this something that custom builders desire? This is the sign of a cheap guitar. If you want that, use epoxy to glue the neck to the body make sure there is some squeeze out so you can smooth it out with a finger and clean the rest up with denatured alcohol. Haha I love how you have advice on how to make a guitar look cheap.

Author:	RusRob [ Tue Jan 21, 2014 10:12 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Spray with neck on or off?
I have done a lot of neck resets and I much prefer Martin over Gibson. Martin finishes with neck off and Gibson is finished with neck on. I have refinished a few and I always do it with the neck off. It just makes it so much easier when it is time for a neck reset. I hate having to cut the finish around a Gibson to pull the neck. However one good thing about it is when you steam off a neck that has been finished on the guitar you don't get much steam seeping out of the joint and turning the finish white.

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Author:	jfmckenna [ Tue Jan 21, 2014 10:36 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Spray with neck on or off?
It does make the neck reset a bit more annoying. I actually like the look of the finished in neck. To my eye it flows better and looks smooth. I don't however finish with the neck on anymore because it's just a lot easier to do it when off. I'm glad then that the finished in look is not so desirable if that is the case. Doesn't Taylor use some sort of putty on that joint to give it a smoother finished look?

Author:	emoney [ Tue Jan 21, 2014 1:03 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Spray with neck on or off?
My eons of experience point toward neck off. I mean, I've built one acoustic and that's the way I did it. So, you should take that advice to heart because it's rare when one receives sage advice from a seasoned pro.

Author:	the Padma [ Tue Jan 21, 2014 2:45 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Spray with neck on or off?
Now if you dudes were to embrace the brilliance of me wishbone construction we woodn't be hazzing dis discussion. blessings

Author:	Doug Balzer [ Tue Jan 21, 2014 7:56 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Spray with neck on or off?
Great conversation all! Interestingly enough, in his videos Robbie O'Brien sprays with neck on. I'd love to hear him on this subject.

Author:	StevenWheeler [ Tue Jan 21, 2014 9:05 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Spray with neck on or off?
Doug Balzer wrote: Great conversation all! Interestingly enough, in his videos Robbie O'Brien sprays with neck on. I'd love to hear him on this subject. Robbie builds a lot of classical guitars. Perhaps he finishes all his guitars the same way. I don't know. Admittedly I did forget the numerous quality guitars finished with the necks on, I've done a few myself. I finish with the neck off whenever possible. My initial reaction was tempered by the 1976 Alverez that hit the bench yesterday. Impressive epoxy fillet on that one.

Author:	Robbie_McD [ Tue Jan 21, 2014 9:15 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Spray with neck on or off?
I am questioning my neck-on finish practice as well (from classical experience). What is the best technique to perfectly scrape back the top finish to the fretboard line...?

Author:	Mike OMelia [ Wed Jan 22, 2014 1:02 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Spray with neck on or off?
Off. It's best. Plus, it makes u work harder for a better fit

Author:	Rob Flindall [ Wed Jan 22, 2014 1:20 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Spray with neck on or off?
+1 on finishing with the neck off. My first guitar, a kit guitar, was sprayed neck on - what a pain in the neck, literally! I bought the Stewmac freehand holder for my next guitar and it's been great.

Author:	Robbie_McD [ Wed Jan 22, 2014 8:21 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Spray with neck on or off?
Filippo Morelli wrote: I set the neck, bolt it on, and tape the perimeter of the fretboard tongue over the top. Then pull the neck. Then tape 1/8" inside that perimeter. Then pull the outside tape. Spray. I then chamfer the lacquer edge (block sand is fine), and glue up. I don't worry about a perfect glue joint to the fretboard - plenty of surface area for a non-loaded joint, and if it has to come off, I'm happy if it's not too much work Filippo Thanks for this Fillipo - I had dreaded trying to scrape exactly along the FB line - your technique looks a treat. Neck off for me on the next one!

Author:	Robbie_McD [ Thu Jan 23, 2014 7:58 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Spray with neck on or off?
Filippo, for chamfering the bridge bottom, would a binding bit in a router table be the ticket to ensure a consistent ~3/32" rebate? I recall with horror an earlier bludgeoned effort to scrape exactly around the bridge profile on a perfectly finished top.... a rebate sounds like the way to go...

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Author:	Clay S. [ Wed Jan 22, 2014 8:56 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Spray with neck on or off?
Filippo wrote: "I set the neck, bolt it on, and tape the perimeter of the fretboard tongue over the top. Then pull the neck. Then tape 1/8" inside that perimeter. Then pull the outside tape. Spray. I then chamfer the lacquer edge (block sand is fine), and glue up." I also tape where the bridge goes. I like to spray things flat, so I will tape blocks inside these taped areas, spray the top with a heavy coat and the sides lightly, allow it to flash off, flip it onto the blocks, spray the back (heavy) and the sides again(light). With my cheap spray gun I get less overspray and better flow out spraying heavy coats that would sag if sprayed vertically (plus it requires less technique to spray things flat <g>).

Author:	Tai Fu [ Thu Jan 23, 2014 2:52 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Spray with neck on or off?
I spray with the neck on... it's just easier to hold the guitar while spraying, then I can hang it by the tuner hole to spray the neck. Plus it just feels more complete...

Author:	absrec [ Sat Jan 25, 2014 9:07 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Spray with neck on or off?
Tai Fu wrote: I spray with the neck on... it's just easier to hold the guitar while spraying, then I can hang it by the tuner hole to spray the neck. Plus it just feels more complete... Me too since a good deal of the finish work I've done has been repairs, touch-ups, etc. Guess I'm just used to it. Do you tape off the dovetail mortise and tenon when spraying with the neck off? This intrigues me a little. I've been thinking about the possibility of going neck-off for new builds. I'll probably try it once I can wait that long to hear the thing. I usually can't.