You must have different consumer laws, here the supplier replaces faulty items and he contacts the maker.
Edit - kind of Snap! Must have been typing a the same time.
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| Disappointed with Ashley Iles chisels http://luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=43146 |
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| Author: | TRein [ Sat Apr 05, 2014 10:48 am ] |
| Post subject: | Disappointed with Ashley Iles chisels |
I bought 3 Ashley Iles chisels and have been using them for a few months. The steel is very brittle. After honing the chisels to 6000 grit waterstone just a few paring cuts in spruce are enough to crumble the edge. I have been using Footprint and Hirsch chisels for years and they hold an edge considerably longer. Ashley Iles are not very expensive as these things go but my advice is to save your money and find a different brand of chisel. |
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| Author: | Michael.N. [ Sat Apr 05, 2014 11:57 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Disappointed with Ashley Iles chisels |
Well I have 5 of them and they certainly do not exhibit that characteristic. I think before you condemn a tool manufacturer it might be wise to take a few things into account. You are the first person I've heard of that has had a poor experience with AI chisels. Obviously I'm not party to huge cross section of the people who have bought these chisels but I think if they were problematic I would have known about it. Some chisels need grinding back a few mm's to get back to good steel. I don't understand the reason for this but I have heard it stated in relation to many other makers, not just AI. Something to do with the hardening/annealing process. What angle have you sharpened them at? If they still crumble at the edge, send them back for replacement. They are obviously a faulty batch. I can pare end grain Ebony and whilst such a wood is hard on any chisel my AI chisels hold up well. Spruce doesn't even begin to touch them. |
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| Author: | Colin North [ Sat Apr 05, 2014 12:29 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Disappointed with Ashley Iles chisels |
TRein wrote: I bought 3 Ashley Iles chisels and have been using them for a few months. The steel is very brittle. After honing the chisels to 6000 grit waterstone just a few paring cuts in spruce are enough to crumble the edge. I have been using Footprint and Hirsch chisels for years and they hold an edge considerably longer. Ashley Iles are not very expensive as these things go but my advice is to save your money and find a different brand of chisel. Send them back, they are faulty. I have 7 and they are excellent. Take an superb edge and hold it, 30 degrees. |
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| Author: | Tom West [ Sat Apr 05, 2014 1:05 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Disappointed with Ashley Iles chisels |
Michael.N. wrote: Some chisels need grinding back a few mm's to get back to good steel. I don't understand the reason for this but I have heard it stated in relation to many other makers, not just AI. Something to do with the hardening/annealing process. I would guess that the extra bit of heat generated by grinding may be enough to take the brittleness out of the edge. But that is a WAG on my part. Tom |
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| Author: | TRein [ Sat Apr 05, 2014 2:39 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Disappointed with Ashley Iles chisels |
Ground to 25 degrees. I have ground them back numerous times since the edge crumbles so readily. I contacted the seller in the States from whom I bought them and they referred me to Ashley Iles. I contacted Ashles Iles and have not received a response. Not sure if sending a sub $30 chisel across the pond for replacement is worth it, even if I do hear from AI. |
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| Author: | Michael.N. [ Sat Apr 05, 2014 3:43 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Disappointed with Ashley Iles chisels |
I'm surprised. Whenever I have had issues with products it's the retailer who sorts things out, even if they may not be legally obliged to do so. |
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| Author: | Colin North [ Sat Apr 05, 2014 3:43 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Disappointed with Ashley Iles chisels |
You must have different consumer laws, here the supplier replaces faulty items and he contacts the maker. Edit - kind of Snap! Must have been typing a the same time.
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| Author: | Deserter [ Sat Apr 05, 2014 3:49 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Disappointed with Ashley Iles chisels |
I live in the UK and use Ashley Isles chisels, they will sort out the problem, they will even take back and resharpen tools without defects, (obviously at the owners cost, postage wise). Anyway I'm not sure often you contacted AI but your last post on here was 20:39 on Saturday evening, they'll not respond until Monday, now. Once things are sorted though, if I can help at all let me know. Sent from my D5503 using Tapatalk |
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| Author: | theguitarwhisperer [ Sat Apr 05, 2014 7:12 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Disappointed with Ashley Iles chisels |
I haven't found a chisel yet that holds a 25 degree edge, personally. So I just sharpen them all at 30 degreees or greater, and it actually works out just fine, I don't really see the need for a 25 degree edge. |
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| Author: | johnparchem [ Sat Apr 05, 2014 8:37 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Disappointed with Ashley Iles chisels |
theguitarwhisperer wrote: I haven't found a chisel yet that holds a 25 degree edge, personally. So I just sharpen them all at 30 degreees or greater, and it actually works out just fine, I don't really see the need for a 25 degree edge. Interesting, I only use a 25 degree angle on my chisels. I usually go through an entire guitar build with just stropping. I mostly use a set of lie-nielsen bevel edge chisels my brother gave me for making him a guitar. I also use a LMI paring chisel a bunch. The Lie Nielsen chisels shipped as 30 degree chisels so you may be on to something. I am not sure why I ground mine to 25. |
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| Author: | theguitarwhisperer [ Sat Apr 05, 2014 11:33 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Disappointed with Ashley Iles chisels |
I go through 2 or 3 builds with no stropping just an initial sharpening. Can't do that with the 25 degree bevel, and they carve like butter. I have a bunch of old chisels I bought off ebay. |
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| Author: | Bob Orr [ Sun Apr 06, 2014 5:49 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Disappointed with Ashley Iles chisels |
I have the Ashley Iles and love them and have not experienced your problems. Initial grind at 25 degrees as supplied then i do a micro secondary bevel at 30 degrees and never had any problems. Cheers, Bob |
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| Author: | Michael.N. [ Sun Apr 06, 2014 6:06 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Disappointed with Ashley Iles chisels |
Well quite possibly a faulty batch. Anyone who ever makes anything (in enough numbers) will be subject to mistakes. If Ford and Toyota can't stop the mistakes (with all their resources) it's little wonder that small tool makers like AI have the odd bad ones that get through. Actually the blade that came with my Veritas Apron Plane isn't exactly a fine example of cutting steel that holds an edge well. It's not terrible but it's one of the worst performing Plane blades that I have. I'm pretty sure it was part of a Friday afternoon production shift and not a typical example of Veritas steel. |
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| Author: | Trevor Gore [ Sun Apr 06, 2014 7:22 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Disappointed with Ashley Iles chisels |
Michael.N. wrote: Actually the blade that came with my Veritas Apron Plane isn't exactly a fine example of cutting steel that holds an edge well. It's not terrible but it's one of the worst performing Plane blades that I have.  Here's an old story about a Veritas blade. And they STILL haven't sent me ANYTHING! 
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| Author: | bluescreek [ Sun Apr 06, 2014 8:43 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Disappointed with Ashley Iles chisels |
Metal is not all the same. Different alloys require different heat treat and stress relief. If they were heated in the grinding process , that can change the temper. Using a power grinder or sander dry will heat the edge. This can make the edge very brittle. I use a wet grinding stone for all cutting edge tools. Even on hand grind I will use water or oil stones to avoid heating. If you see the edge change color you are risking damage to the tool. Edge angle is also important. Going beyond 30 degrees removes edge support and allows the edge to fold or break. Harder edges can make sharpening more difficult without the proper techniques. |
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| Author: | TRein [ Sun Apr 06, 2014 9:33 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Disappointed with Ashley Iles chisels |
I'll try increasing the angle to 30 degrees and see what that does. Also, I doubt whether I have removed 2mm from the ends so I'll cut them back a bit further. On the positive side they are nicely balanced and the backs of the blades are slightly hollow ground which makes lapping them very easy. |
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| Author: | ernie [ Sun Apr 06, 2014 4:28 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Disappointed with Ashley Iles chisels |
.As the the others mentioned tom. I would contact ashley iles ! |
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| Author: | mqbernardo [ Sun Apr 06, 2014 5:10 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Disappointed with Ashley Iles chisels |
i only have two AI chisels, both around 30 degrees - they´ve worked very fine so far. |
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| Author: | ZekeM [ Sun Apr 06, 2014 5:11 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Disappointed with Ashley Iles chisels |
Michael.N. wrote: Well quite possibly a faulty batch. Anyone who ever makes anything (in enough numbers) will be subject to mistakes. I NEVER make mitsakes. 
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| Author: | TRein [ Mon Apr 07, 2014 7:35 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Disappointed with Ashley Iles chisels |
Well, I re-ground the angle to 30 degrees and gave it a try. Still very brittle. I have used Footprint and Hirsch chisels ground to 25 degrees for many years and they have never exhibited this amount of crumble. If it is a case of defective steel it seems odd that both a 1/4" and 3/4" chisel would have defective steel. One would think that the two sizes of chisels were made at different times. |
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| Author: | Alex Kleon [ Mon Apr 07, 2014 8:11 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Disappointed with Ashley Iles chisels |
ZekeM wrote: Michael.N. wrote: Well quite possibly a faulty batch. Anyone who ever makes anything (in enough numbers) will be subject to mistakes. I NEVER make mitsakes. I'll take a set of your finest chisels, my friend! Alex |
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