Official Luthiers Forum!
http://luthiersforum.com/forum/

Satin open pore finish
http://luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=43170		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  Josh H [ Wed Apr 09, 2014 8:16 am ]
Post subject:  Satin open pore finish
I'm on the lookout for something that could be used as a Satin open pore finish on an acoustic guitar (body and neck). I'm looking for something easy (and quick) to apply that will look good when it is done. I'm currently testing Waterlox on a variety of different woods and I think it has possibilities. Has anyone tried finishing a whole guitar with Waterlox? Any other suggestions for a finish that would fit this description?

Thanks

Josh
Author:  timoM [ Wed Apr 09, 2014 8:30 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Satin open pore finish
I'd use a precat lacquer. Becker acroma makes a spectacular product and the company is Canadian so it should be easy to find. Precats are gloss rated as a number, the closer to 100 the higher the gloss. I think you should look for 40 sheen. The application schedule is very easy; prep your guitar to 220, spray 2 full wet coats, let that dry for an hour, scuff it and spray 3 wet coats, in two hours you can handle the parts. I'd wait a day or two before attaching the neck if the guitar is not assembled. Tim
Author:  Nick Royle [ Wed Apr 09, 2014 10:03 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Satin open pore finish
Probably not what you're after but it's all my experience can offer: Liberon Finishing Oil (or another oil)....

I can tell you it gives a lovely, glowing, satin finish on khaya... Not so nice on rosewood, but with a bit of wax it looks good.
I woudn't want to use oil on the top in the future, though, having learned of it's dampening effect.

Timo,
That's a quick finish! Tempting.
Author:  RusRob [ Wed Apr 09, 2014 11:43 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Satin open pore finish
I have had very good results with lacquer.

This is my Gibson LG-0 that I rebuilt and refinished. I wanted an open pore finish with a gloss front and satin sides and back. The close up shows the open grain on the glossy side but the satin is the same but it isn't nearly as pronounced because of the satin finish.

I just laid 3 coats of sealer on sanding between coats and then 3 coats of lacquer over that. To get the satin finish I used 1200 grit sandpaper sanding only in one direction (much like you would do with steel wool). The neck is an oil finish which is also open grained.

It is very quick and easy to get a nice open coat satin finish using lacquer but then you do need the spray equipment to do it.

Cheers,
Bob
Author:  Colin North [ Wed Apr 09, 2014 12:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Satin open pore finish
Nick Royle wrote:
Probably not what you're after but it's all my experience can offer: Liberon Finishing Oil (or another oil)....

I can tell you it gives a lovely, glowing, satin finish on khaya... Not so nice on rosewood, but with a bit of wax it looks good.
I woudn't want to use oil on the top in the future, though, having learned of it's dampening effect.

Timo,
That's a quick finish! Tempting.

Some people might disagree.
For one, Kevin Aram, http://aramguitars.co.uk/a classical builder of some renown, has been using Liberon Finishing Oil for some years on his guitars. His opinion seems to be that it is sonically transparent.
If you use a either a very light first coat (wipe with a dampened cloth basically), or a lick of shellac, to seal the wood, further coats will not sink in to the wood. ;)
Author:  Michael.N. [ Wed Apr 09, 2014 12:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Satin open pore finish
I think that Aram got it from the Lute makers, who used it as a better alternative to waxing their soundboards.
Author:  Nick Royle [ Wed Apr 09, 2014 6:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Satin open pore finish
Quite right, Colin, I should've added caveats to my comment! I had heard that. This is a case of learning something new and throwing out the old! I'll make sure to give both sides of the story next time! And I'll make sure to use shellac first if I do it again... Another tip for anyone tempted to try the Liberon, which someone else might like to confirm because I'm not entirely sure about it... Don't sand up too high before applying, I got some streaking on spruce test pieces when I sanded up to 1000 so I only went to 320 on the actual guitar.
Author:  Josh H [ Wed Apr 09, 2014 6:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Satin open pore finish
Thanks for the input guys. I'll look into all your suggestions.

I figure I will end up using a sprayed satin laquer of some kind, but wanted to know if there were some other possibilities I should be considering. I finish all my guitars with gloss nitro and my necks with Truoil. I'm looking at satin finish for some prototype instruments I'm considering building.

Josh
Author:  Alex Kleon [ Wed Apr 09, 2014 7:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Satin open pore finish
I just bought a can each of Brite-Tone sanding sealer, and gloss finish. It also comes in satin as well, Josh. http://www.woodessence.com/Brite-Tone-I ... 7C117.aspx
I'm planning on trying it on some sample boards soon.

Alex
Author:  Josh H [ Wed Apr 09, 2014 9:55 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Satin open pore finish
Thanks Alex, I'll be really interested to know how your samples turn out. I'll admit that I'm pretty skeptical about water based finishes. I tried a variety of them when I was starting out and they weren't great. The quality and ease of use could not compare to the standard solvent based finishes. I know WB finishes have come a long way over the past few years, but I'm still skeptical. Be sure to post a review after you have had a chance to use it.

Josh
Author:  RusRob [ Wed Apr 09, 2014 10:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Satin open pore finish
Josh H wrote:
Thanks for the input guys. I'll look into all your suggestions.

I figure I will end up using a sprayed satin laquer of some kind, but wanted to know if there were some other possibilities I should be considering. I finish all my guitars with gloss nitro and my necks with Truoil. I'm looking at satin finish for some prototype instruments I'm considering building.

Josh


Josh,
I have had a fair amount of experience spraying furniture with lacquer and have sprayed satin finishes on a number of pieces. I use to use a flattening agent but it is essentially the same. One problem I have run into is satin lacquer will mark up pretty easily, a simple rub across it with a finger nail will leave a shiny mark you can see. I use to always use 000 or 0000 steel wool to get a mat finish. I hate steel wool so I switched to 1200 or 1500 grit sandpaper rubbed in one direction. It will leave a much more stable satin finish that doesn't mark up nearly as easily.

since you are prepped to spray nitro, give it a try and see. I think you will be quite pleased with the look of it. It seems to have a much richer look and feel than satin lacquer.

Cheers,
Bob

OH, Sorry for that large image, I will reduce it so it doesn't stretch the posts out so wide... :oops:
Author:  Goodin [ Thu Apr 10, 2014 8:28 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Satin open pore finish
I also recommend Liberon Finishing Oil for a beautiful deep satin finish. I have used it on several instruments with great results. The talk about the oil sinking into the wood and dampening tone is nonsense, in my opinion. It leaves a very thin finish which allows the guitar to breathe with no break in period. No finish is perfect however, the thin finish will not provide the durability of film finishes. It's best to use Liberon on harder woods (harder spruces, Sitka, Adi). It can be difficult to apply on rosewoods but a vigorous wipe down of Naptha until no more oils come out of the rosewood just before applying Liberon helps. Liberon works beautifully on walnut and mahogany. It takes more coats for softer woods like spruce.

After much trial and error I have found out the best application method that works for me. Sand up to 600 grit, water raise the grain after each grit. Apply a light coat of Liberon with a clean old t-shirt. Look over the instrument closely for sanding scratches that will now appear vividly. Sand them out and let the instrument sit over night with a fan blowing directly on it. The next day apply another thin coat and look for scratches again. Let it sit over night with a fan blowing on it. Repeat each day until the desired sheen is achieved. The can will say you can re-coat after 4 hours but don't listen to that. You get a better build and higher sheen if all the VOC's get out of the finish before the next coat. So wait at least a day between coats with a fan blowing all the time.
Author:  Michael.N. [ Thu Apr 10, 2014 9:11 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Satin open pore finish
I'd say a minimum of 400G (straight lines) with Danish/Finishing Oil. It highlights scratches like no other finish.
I've never had to use a fan. Just give it the required drying time - around 6 to 8 hours between applications. I can get away with a few hours in a UV drying cabinet. The petroleum solvents evaporate pretty quickly, it's the Oil/resin that needs to cure. All of these Danish/modern Oil varnishes contain driers but the UV also speeds things up.
Author:  Colin North [ Thu Apr 10, 2014 10:06 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Satin open pore finish
Thanks Gil and Michael.
I'm just about to try Liberon Finishing Oil over a pore fill of egg white/slurry.
Page 1 of 1 All times are UTC - 5 hours
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group
http://www.phpbb.com/