Straight Butt joint on baritone uke.
1/4-20 insert from McFeely's in heel.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 2
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| Author: | D. Ramsey [ Sun Jul 06, 2014 8:02 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Show me your Butt Joint |
So do you recess the neck into the neck block in any way? or the fingerboard down into the top?? Do you use threaded inserts? or do you just do a straight surface to surface connection without being keyed into the body in anyway? Curious to see some pictures of the different methods .... Maybe there is already a thread with lots of pictures that someone can post a link to.... |
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| Author: | D. Ramsey [ Sun Jul 06, 2014 8:20 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Show me your Butt Joint |
Figured since Beth wanted to see M&T joints I would much more like to see your Butt joint connection |
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| Author: | RustySP [ Sun Jul 06, 2014 8:24 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Show me your Butt Joint |
Straight Butt joint on baritone uke. 1/4-20 insert from McFeely's in heel. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 2 |
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| Author: | D. Ramsey [ Sun Jul 06, 2014 8:35 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Show me your Butt Joint |
That is the same way I did my tenor uke ..... Just wondering if that with 2 bolts is good enough for a guitar. |
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| Author: | RustySP [ Sun Jul 06, 2014 10:16 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Show me your Butt Joint |
Yes, I think two bolts + glued down fingerboard extension would be fine. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 2 |
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| Author: | SteveSmith [ Sun Jul 06, 2014 11:14 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Show me your Butt Joint |
Plenty strong although this is the only butt joint I've done. The rest are M&T. The only thing I don't like is the the inserts take up enough room in the neck that I couldn't slim the heel down like I wanted, although this one wasn't even close to slim. I could have used a screw in threaded rod but I don't like the look of a nut and bolt in the guitar. I've thought about trying that and putting a little wooden cover on it. Attachment: IMG_1510.JPG
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| Author: | theguitarwhisperer [ Sun Jul 06, 2014 11:23 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Show me your Butt Joint |
SteveSmith wrote: Plenty strong although this is the only butt joint I've done. The rest are M&T. The only thing I don't like is the the inserts take up enough room in the neck that I couldn't slim the heel down like I wanted, although this one wasn't even close to slim. I could have used a screw in threaded rod but I don't like the look of a nut and bolt in the guitar. I've thought about trying that and putting a little wooden cover on it. Attachment: IMG_1510.JPG You know, that's a good point. It seems to me that one good reason to use a M/T VS a butt would be the ability to make the heel as small, or almost non-existant, as you want, like the Somogyi heels. Tough to do with those inserts, I would think.. |
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| Author: | meddlingfool [ Sun Jul 06, 2014 11:25 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Show me your Butt Joint |
I'll put some pics up n a bit... |
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| Author: | D. Ramsey [ Sun Jul 06, 2014 11:32 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Show me your Butt Joint |
George convinced me that with an M&T joint only a lower bolt is needed as the tension on the strings holds the top in place but I don't feel that confident in one bolt with a Butt joint. We put a hanger bolt in the lower heel of the neck and as you said Steve .... I don't like seeing the bolt and nut on the inside through the soundport. |
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| Author: | meddlingfool [ Mon Jul 07, 2014 6:06 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Show me your Butt Joint |
 about as easy as it gets. Sorta... the inside is relieved to leave the edges touching just like a dovetail... unsightly bolt holes are covered with off cuts from the back...
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| Author: | SteveSmith [ Mon Jul 07, 2014 8:41 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Show me your Butt Joint |
Ed, what are you using to hold the off cut on with? |
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| Author: | jfmckenna [ Mon Jul 07, 2014 9:48 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Show me your Butt Joint |
I don't have any pics but the above pics pretty much are the same way I do it too. I like to inset the inserts a couple millimeters for future reset repair and I epoxy them in. I've tried all kinds of bolts and have settled on using black furniture connector bolts. I recess them on the inside of the neck block and I actually like the way they look. Kind of like looking at the peg construction of a barn, leave nothing hidden and shows how it works. But I can see that people would think it's ugly especially since it's still non traditional in guitar making. |
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| Author: | meddlingfool [ Mon Jul 07, 2014 8:07 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Show me your Butt Joint |
Magic High-Tec Double Stick Lutheran Tape (tm)... You can usually find rolls at the dollar store. The piece doesn't fully cover the top hole, usually shy by about 1/8. If you need to remove it you just pop it off with an Allen key. Not nearly as graceful as the Huss & Dalton method... |
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| Author: | Nick Royle [ Mon Jul 07, 2014 10:10 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Show me your Butt Joint |
I followed R M Mottola's instructions: http://liutaiomottola.com/construction/Bolton.htm Attachment: image080.jpg Attachment: image081.jpg Heel depth required is a definite drawback. |
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| Author: | Dan Pennington [ Tue Jul 08, 2014 7:24 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Show me your Butt Joint |
Butt joint inlet thru sides 
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| Author: | Bryan Bear [ Tue Jul 08, 2014 8:59 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Show me your Butt Joint |
I put a dowel in the heel and use hangar bolts. This allow a much slimmer heel that using inserts. I also don't like the look of a nut on the inside of the box so I use these allen headed furniture knockdowns for the nut. You have to plan out the length of the bolt entering the heel block a little more carefully since you only have so much thread space on the furniture nut but other than that it is no problem. I usually screw the wood thread side into the heel then back it out and cut off the extra length from the wood thread side. Once I have the bolt length set how I want it, I wick some CA into the wood thread side to help seat the bolt. Attachment: hangar bolt.jpg This is the only picture I could find of one of my bolt on butt joints (it doesn't show it very well either). It is on an uke so there is only one bolt. Also of note, I still used a 1/4 20 hangar bolt because that is all I had. I needed to cut off threads from the wood thread side as well as the machine thread side. I screwed on a nut, cut the machine threads with a hacksaw and backed the nut off to clean up the cut threads. Attachment: uke heel.jpg
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| Author: | John Killin [ Tue Jul 08, 2014 9:18 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Show me your Butt Joint |
I'm using 1/4" hangar bolts with Bolt Caps for fasteners. Like Bryan I put a maple dowel in the heel. I pretty much do it the same way Bryan describes, but I don't glue in the hangar bolts until final assembly. That way I can remove them while I'm working on the neck joint. Attachment: Neck Bolts and Nuts.jpg
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| Author: | Beth Mayer [ Tue Jul 08, 2014 12:04 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Show me your Butt Joint |
D. Ramsey wrote: Figured since Beth wanted to see M&T joints I would much more like to see your Butt joint connection Great follow-up question, "D"! Excellent pictures from everyone. The first guitar I built in a 2 week intensive, was a butt joint. We used two inserts, no dowel. I still haven't glued that FB down and that join has held perfectly for 5 years. I like the MT only because I like using the cross-dowel type furniture bolts in the tenon, but it's tempting to go back to the butt 
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| Author: | meddlingfool [ Tue Jul 08, 2014 12:38 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Show me your Butt Joint |
Well, it's been working quite well for me. ~80 guitars without issue... |
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| Author: | meddlingfool [ Tue Jul 08, 2014 12:42 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Show me your Butt Joint |
Here's my heel. It can definitely be made smaller than this, as the inserts only embed themselves 5/8" total. So if you wanted to you could shove 1/8" off all the edges quite safely...  A pick for perspective  
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| Author: | Lonnie J Barber [ Tue Jul 08, 2014 1:33 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Show me your Butt Joint |
Very nice medeling fool. 80 guitars without a bad one? That's great. I have to finish up two baritone ukeleles then I have my first commission. A Tenor guitar. Plan on using bolt on for the second Uke which I just started and the guitar as well. So I'm going to need some input from you old pros. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk |
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| Author: | meddlingfool [ Tue Jul 08, 2014 1:55 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Show me your Butt Joint |
I've never looked for it, but I would imagine that there is downsized hardware that you could use for ukes. Much less tension I should think... |
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| Author: | Beth Mayer [ Tue Jul 08, 2014 4:00 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Show me your Butt Joint |
meddlingfool wrote: I've never looked for it, but I would imagine that there is downsized hardware that you could use for ukes. Much less tension I should think... I just use the next size down insert for my ukes (and only one) and no problems. |
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| Author: | Brad Goodman [ Tue Jul 08, 2014 8:53 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Show me your Butt Joint |
I use a simple butt joint. I made a jig with interchangable hardened steel bushings (from Japan woodworker) so I get good alignment on both the heel and the bolt holes in the head block. I use steel inserts from McMaster Carr . I reinforce the heel with a 1/2" hard maple dowel. |
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| Author: | Beth Mayer [ Tue Jul 08, 2014 10:56 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Show me your Butt Joint |
Brad, I was going to make one of those for my next build! I saw something like that on a website recently and I expect it to take away the stress of trying to get the holes aligned. thanks for the picture! |
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