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| neck reset http://luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=43910 |
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| Author: | Dipstick [ Sat Aug 02, 2014 5:03 pm ] |
| Post subject: | neck reset |
I need to reset a neck on a guitar I built with a Richlite fretboard. Richlite is supposed to be stable to 350 degrees?? Does anybody have any tips on loosening the fretboard over the body? I did use white glue for the fretboard. Is excessive heat an issue? What's excessive?? Any tips to make the job successful?? |
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| Author: | uvh sam [ Sat Aug 02, 2014 6:35 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: neck reset |
Some people use an incandescent lamp as a heat source to loosen the tongue. You have to protect the area of the top around the fingerboard with guards that have tin foil on a side to reflect the heat, otherwise you can damage the finish. |
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| Author: | RusRob [ Sat Aug 02, 2014 9:23 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: neck reset |
I couldn't tell you about your Richlite fretboard since I have not worked on one before but if it can take 350 degrees then you shouldn't have a problem removing the fretboard extension with heat. I do repair work and have done a number of neck resets so here is how I do it. I use a ceramic blanket to protect the soundboard. It is 1/4" think and will isolate up to 2500 degrees. it is made for putting behind fireplaces and you can buy it pretty cheap at any outlet that sells fireplaces and wood burning stoves. It feels very much like felt and is soft to the touch so it will not mar up a finish on a guitar. I have 2 pieces I use, one for fretboards and one for bridges which have cutouts to expose just those areas. I use a normal cloths iron set on medium with no steam. I lay a doubled up piece of the disposable blue shop rag over the fretboard and then lay the hot iron on that. Let it sit for a few minutes and then use my separation knife to check if the glue is soft enough to slide it between the fretboard and the body (or bridge depending on what I am working on). As soon as I feel the glue start to stiffen up I replace the blanket and iron and heat it up again. A couple of times and you should be able to remove the part with ease. Do not try to force it or you will end up ripping wood from the soundboard. My separation knife is just a good quality putty knife that I have thinned the end down and blunted off the corners. You can make one pretty easy but make sure there are no sharp edges anywere and about 1" of the end has been tinned down so it will slip in between the parts and as it goes in the thicker part will do the separating. Here is a picture that I have posted here on the forum before which is my separation knife and how it is bent as well as the ceramic blanket for doing bridges. I am assuming it is a bolt on neck or if it is a dovetail you know how to steam it off? Hope this helps. Cheers, Bob |
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| Author: | Dipstick [ Sat Aug 02, 2014 10:10 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: neck reset |
Bob, thanks for the great tips on the neck reset. Yeah, I just ordered a steam tool and neck removal jig from Stew Mac. My primary concern was melting the Richlite by overheating it. Bought it from Martin, so if they are using the stuff one would think it would behave much like a solid wood fretboard. |
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| Author: | RusRob [ Sat Aug 02, 2014 10:45 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: neck reset |
You might want to read my last post in this thread: http://luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=43893 I talk specifically about drilling the holes and steaming the joint on a dovetail set neck. If you have never done one before it can be a bit intimidating but it is not hard to do. Hope this helps. And if you have any questions feel free to PM me. Cheers, Bob |
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| Author: | Dipstick [ Sun Aug 03, 2014 8:25 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: neck reset |
Bob, read your neck removal post, good pointers and thanks again! It'll be a week or so before I attempt to remove the neck, so I may have more questions then! Cheers |
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| Author: | David Collins [ Sun Aug 03, 2014 8:31 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: neck reset |
We do neck resets quite often on these, and heat can indeed bubble the surface, but this happens at a far higher temperature than required to soften the glue. My typical method for extension removal is a 250w heat lamp and a reflective shield covering the top (can be made simply with a cutout of thin cardboard, aluminum foil, and some metal HVAC duct tape). The caul should fit reasonably around the board, then I extend a layer of the HVAC tape from the shield to <1/4" inside the edge of the board to cover any gaps In the seam. For rosewood or ebony boards I typically aim for as aggressive heat transfer as reasonable, as the faster you can impart heat to the joint, the more quickly it will reach the critical temp with less opportunity for heat to migrate beyond it. This means placing the bulb pretty much right up against the board surface, which if kept under observation and not left too long will not damage the wood surface and still allow for maximum heat transfer. I learned the hard way once many years back however, when these synthetic boards were first coming in to use, that they will not tolerate such an aggressive heat transfer, and I did have some minor bubbling up of the surface. This was a foolish mistake on my part however, and not something you need to be overly concerned of if you are careful. If you're using a typical 250w red food warmer bulb, keep it 1-2" above the surface and check the joint frequently after the first minute and a half or so of heating. Richlite seems to absorb and transfer heat faster than most wood boards, so it doesn't often take more than 2 - 2_1/2 minutes of exposure to suitably soften a PVA joint. Results will of course vary with minor differences in how you position the lamp and what specific bulb you're using, but that's a reasonable time frame with our setup. I do have silicone blanket and aluminum blocks with cartridge heaters that I use for other jobs, but for extension and bridge removal I still personally prefer the traditional heat lamp methods. I find the ergonomics to be much more friendly, with full constant visibility of the surfaces for observation, and the ease of removing or reapplying the heat source without having to remove and replace hot objects on the instrument as you check the joint at intervals through the process. Plus with the bulb the heat is actually generated directly in the surface as the light contacts it, whereas with blocks and blankets there will often be mixed areas of high heat transfer from direct contact and lower radiant heat transfer where any gaps my lie if the caul fit is not absolutely perfect. This can necessitate a slightly lower heat level at the blanket to avoid hot spots, meaning a slightly longer time for heat application, and more opportunity for heat to dissipate and transfer beyond the joint to areas it is not needed. Still, a significant percentage of shops use heat blankets and blocks for this job and it works just fine. Different approaches, and this is just a snippet of the reasons I personally prefer the old-school lamp. Visibility, ease of use, direct even heat generation in the material, and simple heat level adjustment by adjusting proximity of the bulb to the surface. For a Richlite board I find the visibility for observation and ease of removal/reapplication as you check the joint to be of particular value. The glue will soften at a much lower temp than would be required to damage the board though, so you have quite a safe window there. I just don't apply heat quite as aggressively as I may with ebony or rosewood though, allowing for slightly slower heat transfer to get to the joint to allow for lower surface temp through the process. Be careful, watch and check frequently, and you should be fine. |
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| Author: | Dipstick [ Sun Aug 03, 2014 8:39 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: neck reset |
Thanks Dave, great advice, I'll give it a try! |
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| Author: | RusRob [ Sun Aug 03, 2014 9:54 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: neck reset |
David, Thanks for the info on Richlite fretboards, I have yet to run into one but I am sure I will at some point in the future. I assumed it was a pretty stable material or Martin wouldn't be using it. Your suggestion of using a heat lamp on it makes pretty good sense. Cheers, Bob |
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| Author: | John Arnold [ Sun Aug 03, 2014 10:12 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: neck reset |
I also use a heat lamp for this job. My 'mask' is nothing more than a piece of white corrugated cardboard with a hole cut in it about 1/4" smaller than the fingerboard tongue. With the heat lamp about 3" from the surface, I judge the amount of heat by brushing some water on the fingerboard. Once the water starts to 'sizzle', I know it is getting hot enough to soften the glue. |
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| Author: | Dipstick [ Mon Aug 04, 2014 4:06 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: neck reset |
Thanks John for the tips, I need all the help I can get! |
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| Author: | bluescreek [ Wed Aug 06, 2014 9:53 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: neck reset |
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RurSR88jc8s this is a vid I have on how to pull a neck. It may help you |
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| Author: | jfmckenna [ Wed Aug 06, 2014 10:27 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: neck reset |
uvh sam wrote: Some people use an incandescent lamp as a heat source to loosen the tongue. You have to protect the area of the top around the fingerboard with guards that have tin foil on a side to reflect the heat, otherwise you can damage the finish. That's what I do, except it's a heat lamp type light, and it's probably not going to get up to 350deg unless you are cooking it real close. Depends on the light of course but mine is pretty hot and I keep it about 2ft away from the fretboard and just aim the hot spot right on it and protect the guitar with fire retardant material. It works quite well and I'll have the FB loose in ten minutes. |
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| Author: | Dipstick [ Wed Aug 06, 2014 9:08 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: neck reset |
John, great video with some good tips! Thanks! Dipstick |
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