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| End pins http://luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=43941 |
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| Author: | DennisK [ Thu Aug 07, 2014 5:57 pm ] |
| Post subject: | End pins |
I was just wondering... why are tapered/friction fit end pins ever used on guitars? Just for tradition? Seems like it would be better to use a screw-in strap button as is used at the heel. Easier to fill in the hole if you ever want to remove it, not really any more difficult to drill a 1/2" hole for a pickup jack if you ever want that, and not subject to humidity expansion issues or wedge splitting the tail block if dropped on it. |
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| Author: | murrmac [ Thu Aug 07, 2014 6:31 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: End pins |
DennisK wrote: why are tapered/friction fit end pins ever used on guitars? Just for tradition? Got it in one. I got slaughtered by the traditionalists on the UMGF when I suggested that the tapered endpin was the invention of the devil. There is no practical advantage to a tapered endpin over a screwed-in strap button (preferably a Schaller Straplock). There is a specious argument that they can be removed for transportation , making damage less likely, but that is a very straw-clutching viewpoint. |
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| Author: | TimAllen [ Thu Aug 07, 2014 6:43 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: End pins |
I guess is it's mostly about tradition now, but the explanation I have heard is not about tradition. The end pin sticks out at the base of the guitar. When you ship the guitar or carry it in possibly rough conditions, if the case gets dropped or bumped on its end, the protruding end pin gets whacked, which may crack the end block or cause other damage. The overall guitar is a little shorter without it, and presents a broader area to the cushion of the case. I think the idea is that if the end pin is easily removable, the guitar is slightly safer. Therefore when you ship the guitar, you're supposed to pop out the end pin. Of course you could take out your little screwdriver and remove a screw-on end pin without a heckuva lot more hassle than pulling out a friction fit pin. Whether the possible advantage of the easily removable end pin justifies its inconvenience in terms of installation and occasional tendency to fall out, I couldn't say. In 50 years of carrying guitars around, I have not yet had one damaged by a blow to the end of the case, with or without an endpin. I think I once lost a poorly fitted end pin. I kind of like a wood or bone pin that matches the bridge pins, but that's just my personal taste. |
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| Author: | Tom West [ Thu Aug 07, 2014 7:59 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: End pins |
I no longer use a tapered end pin. I just install an end pin jack and think it looks better and is there if someone wants to install a pick-up. Kills two birds........one stone. Tom |
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| Author: | TRein [ Thu Aug 07, 2014 8:03 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: End pins |
Most high end cases have a notch in the padding for the endpin. I was at a show awhile back and saw a guy playing a nice old Gibson flat top. The tapered endpin let go in the middle of a song and the guitar fell flat on its back on the stage. He turned ashen, picked up the guitar and continued to play. I don't know if the guitar sustained any damage. Ever since that episode I have used screw-in endpins. There are some builders that glue a tapered endpin, which is the worst of all possible worlds. It is difficult to drill one of these out for pickup jack installation. |
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| Author: | DennisK [ Thu Aug 07, 2014 9:03 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: End pins |
Thanks guys  Good to hear I'm not missing anything obvious. The shipping argument doesn't hold much water since lots of guitars have non-removable pickup jacks and seem to survive it. Indeed better to solve that problem in the case design, or simply stuff some packing material around the bottom.
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| Author: | Lonnie J Barber [ Thu Aug 07, 2014 10:25 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: End pins |
I think they are more traditional then anything else. Probably held the tailpiece at one time similar to a fiddle. Imho |
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| Author: | Haans [ Fri Aug 08, 2014 5:35 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: End pins |
My latest has no end pin or hole or strap button. The guy plays sitting down. How's that for a concept? |
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| Author: | B. Howard [ Fri Aug 08, 2014 5:41 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: End pins |
I only install them by request. I put no end pins or strap buttons on anything I build unless asked to do so by the customer. As Haans mentioned, lot's of folks play acoustics sitting down. |
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| Author: | bluescreek [ Fri Aug 08, 2014 6:04 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: End pins |
I agree the end pin can be a nice splitting wedge . I set a piece of plywood in the end block so if it is dropped on the end pin it won't split the guitar. |
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| Author: | Haans [ Fri Aug 08, 2014 6:36 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: End pins |
My end blocks ARE plywood. No reason to use a hardwood block at the tail. |
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| Author: | TRein [ Fri Aug 08, 2014 7:58 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: End pins |
Lonnie J Barber wrote: I think they are more traditional then anything else. Probably held the tailpiece at one time similar to a fiddle. Imho It may have carried over from the violin world. Another reason a large hole was drilled in the endblock was to allow a screw eye to be threaded in. This became the hook for hanging bodies after spraying the finish. It did not need to grab very much wood to support the body while curing. You can still see the threads cut in the endpin hole by the screw eye in many older Martins. |
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| Author: | jfmckenna [ Fri Aug 08, 2014 8:35 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: End pins |
I only put them in if requested also. I like to sit and play personally. But when I did install them I would make sure to taper it right up to the stop point so it would not act as a splitting wedge and I would also just go ahead and glue the darn thing in. Way to risky imo even using the proper tapered reamer to just let friction hold it in imho. |
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| Author: | DennisK [ Fri Aug 08, 2014 9:22 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: End pins |
Lonnie J Barber wrote: I think they are more traditional then anything else. Probably held the tailpiece at one time similar to a fiddle. Imho Ah, there's what I was missing A thick pin would indeed be a lot stronger against the sideways pulling of a tailpiece than a screw button, plus that would keep plenty of pressure/friction on it even if it wasn't tightly fitted to the hole, so not as likely to fall out at random times.But yeah, I do prefer no pin on my own guitars. |
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| Author: | Tai Fu [ Fri Aug 08, 2014 2:26 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: End pins |
I now make the end block out of birch plywood. Solves the problem of splitting. The force you would need to split a plywood block would be enough to destroy the rest of the guitar anyways. Also if a customer requests strap locks, there's no choice but to screw it in. |
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| Author: | murrmac [ Fri Aug 08, 2014 5:02 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: End pins |
DennisK wrote: Lonnie J Barber wrote: I think they are more traditional then anything else. Probably held the tailpiece at one time similar to a fiddle. Imho Ah, there's what I was missing A thick pin would indeed be a lot stronger against the sideways pulling of a tailpiece than a screw button, plus that would keep plenty of pressure/friction on it even if it wasn't tightly fitted to the hole, so not as likely to fall out at random times.But yeah, I do prefer no pin on my own guitars. It would seem that some makers still use the method on archtops today, even with end pin jacks  Begs the question, how do you fit the strap on ? Then again, jazz players don't use straps, do they ... |
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